主题:【原创】哥本哈根协议 -- 橡树村
影响的是碳关税。发达国家减排,仍然可以通过在发展中国家资助减排来进行,这个途径仍然是CDM。实际上由于发达国家减排量增大,CDM可能会更热闹。
华尔街另起炉灶的方法,看起来的确有道理。看看有没有类似观点的人来分析。
这个协议早晨没通过,下午换了一个方式,以记录的方式成为会议的正式文本,算是一个初步共识。
我在开头解释了。
他们爱监督就监督去吧。
这次气候大会,怎么看都是中美串通好的。之前的吵架也是做戏。架吵完了,双方大老板出来握握手,抛出一份早就写好的协议。让大家看着办。自己拍屁股走人。
河里面有非常贴切的比喻。
中国可能接着从CDM拿一些钱。
这个新的基金,估计中国拿不到什么。
我刚刚提到的气候基金证券化,有一个小问题:任何证券化都需要有现金流(反过来说,在今天,只要能看到现金流的东东都可以做证券化),但环保这种事业显然是没有现金流的,除非 --- 碳排放可以当钱用。
事实上这就是今天CDM的根本之处:碳排放可以折算为钞票,只不过这种折算的过程比较复杂,而且参与还不够广泛(主要是美国不参与),也不太可控。
所以成立气候基金的目的很可能是:为将来的世界碳银行做准备,这些资金是为了发行碳货币的准备金,如同黄金储备或者美元储备一样。然后碳银行可以发行真正的碳货币,并规定一个较为稳定的比价。
如此一来,各国的减排项目就可以像一个普通的投资项目一样来融资了,只不过借的是钱,还的是每年减少的碳排放。而现在各地热火朝天的碳交易所也就会真正成为金融交易所,用未来碳排放来发行股票也很合理。
有趣的是,中国也会很热心的出钱出力,毕竟参与一个新货币体系的建立是一个很振奋人心的事情!
本帖一共被 1 帖 引用 (帖内工具实现)
你们自己吵吧
哥城是学这个专业的,对这次大会还是有一些了解。
我等小民,对这个会和其他会议并无不同。一个跟同行见面喝酒的机会,可以联络感情。
丹麦对这次大会投入很大希望,盼着能够达成一项有利的协议,首先,扩大丹麦国际影响力,这些年丹麦是以美国马仔的形象出现在世界舞台的,很是奴颜卑膝。如果这次大会能够形成类似京都议定书之类的决定,对丹麦扩大影响很有好处。(扩大政治影响也是为了商业拓展,欧洲还是奸商的面孔多一些),其次,丹麦的环保技术比较领先。还是希望能够借此拓展可再生能源市场。
为了这次会议,主办方不惜血本。仅中国就拿了一个亿的丹麦援助发展可再生替代能源。
技术是不会给的。几年前,发改委一位大佬来谈判,要转让二代生物酒精的技术,丹麦方只建厂,技术免谈。说白了,就是想借这次会议,把替代能源,二氧化碳减排,二氧化碳存储等技术打广告,准备赚钱,不过看来效果不佳。
去年底,在一次气候会议上,美国的相关人士私下里就表示,哥本哈根肯定啥也不签。这次的大会,丹麦的提案被一顿臭骂。估计也很伤心,这几年钱真没少花,中国不说,非洲,亚洲其他国家,得好处的不少,帮着说话的一个没有。
中国相关高层私下里的意思很明了,气候变暖说白了就是一个唬人的话题。中国目前煤电是绝对主力,短期内没什么改变的可能。二氧化碳减排目前很多说法和技术都是炒概念。俄罗斯每年输气管线甲烷泄漏有几十还是几百万吨?还是几万吨,这个记不清了。甲烷温室效应是二氧化碳60倍。还有其他方面,如飞机排放等等,没人管。管得是什么工业排放。中国是对自己有利则为,无利则装没听见。能借着这股东风把能源利用效率提高,节能降耗,乐见其成。能发展替代能源,降低能源风险也是好事。其他的全球环境什么的,别看自己嘴上说是负责的大国,实际兴趣不大。
最后插一句自己的看法,看看几次冰河时期,最近的一次在明末,全世界到处动荡。这些问题起码目前不是人类科技可以左右的。我们连明天的天气预报都出错,怎么能预测10年,20年后的气候变化?圈里相信这个的没几个。不过圈里人对外没有这么说的,都是冠冕堂皇,对内则说这是我们的面包。
明末是冰河时期吗?不是天下大旱吗?
明末之前那次冰河期是什么年代?
上花。
首先,这次谈不好的原因之一,是地方选得不好!
哥本哈根,就是不要迷恋哥,哥本来就是个傻根……
其次,联合国的这个专门工作组的名字,一定是个阿三给起的——《联合国气候变化框架公约》长期合作特设工作组,英文名是:Long-term Co-operative Action,缩写是LCA!!!竟然是二十五年不能定型的大神战机LCA!!!
西西河里关于印度LCA战机的文章汇总 [ daharry ]
所以。。。悲剧了。。。
申明:哥本哈根是俺从买卖提上看来的,LCA是俺自己发现的哈……
看了法国国家电视台的晚新闻,采访刚回来的环境部长,后者一脸沮丧,虽然没说会议“失败”,但表示基本上没什么成果。看来欧洲确实对这次会议期望值很高。
刚刚看到的有趣新闻:
最后的文本基本上是中美协议,欧洲的主张没有得到响应。
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/12/19/copenhagen.climate.summit.deal/index.html
U.N. chief: Climate change deal reached
Copenhagen, Denmark (CNN) -- U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon said Saturday a "deal has been reached" that could be the framework for a binding global climate change treaty.
"Finally we sealed the deal and it is a real deal. Bringing world leaders to the table paid off," Ban said, according to CNN affiliate TV2 Denmark. "The Copenhagen Accord may not be everything that everyone hoped for but this decision of the conference of parties is a beginning, an essential beginning."
Moon said the non-binding deal called for all countries to limit global temperature rise to below two degrees Celsius.
He said the deal was a step toward creating a legally binding treaty.
"The deal is backed by money and the means to deliver it. Up to $30 billion has been pledged for adaptations and mitigation," Ban said.
Critics of the U.N. Climate Change Conference have said that without specific commitments from the leaders to actually cut carbon emissions it would be difficult to reach any target.
Environmental group Greenpeace released a statement criticizing the deal.
Video: Climate deal reached
Video: Copenhagen deal a 'first step'
Video: A tale of two scientists
RELATED TOPICS
* Global Climate Change
* Barack Obama
* Copenhagen
"Don't believe the hype, there is nothing fair, ambitious or legally binding about this deal," Greenpeace said. "The job of world leaders is not done. Today they shamefully failed to save us all from the effects of catastrophic climate change."
U.S. President Barack Obama praised the deal Friday before leaving the conference in Copenhagen, Denmark.
"For the first time in history, all major economies have come together to accept their responsibility to take action to confront the threat of climate change," Obama told reporters.
The president said he met with leaders from India, China, Brazil and South Africa, and "that's where we agreed ... to set a mitigation target to limit warming to no more than 2 degrees Celsius."
It's a nonbinding goal, and the emissions targets "will not be by themselves sufficient to get to where we need to get by 2050," Obama said. However, he added that it is a first step, and that for many countries "this is going to be the first time in which even voluntary they offered up mitigation targets."
"I think that it was important to essentially get that shift in orientation moving," Obama said.
The president said he believes it's necessary that the countries get to a legally binding treaty, but said, "If we just waited for that, we would not make any progress."
The deal calls on nations to submit their "concrete commitments" into an appendix attached to the agreement to specifically lay out each country's intentions for climate change, Obama said. Those commitments will be subjected to an international "consultation and analysis" that will help foster accountability among the nations.
"It will not be legally binding, but what it will do is allow for each country to show to the world what they're doing," Obama said, "and there will be a sense on the part of each country that we're in this together, and we'll know who is meeting and who is not meeting, the mutual obligations that have been set forth."
Another senior administration official had said the precise details of the agreement were still in some flux, so it was unclear whether the final version would include language that was in earlier drafts aimed at forcing nations to set legally binding targets for reducing emissions.
The president worked behind the scenes on getting a vote among key nations -- including China and India -- to approve the agreement before taking it to the wider group for a vote, according to the official.
而且,让中国,美国,印度坐下来谈,而且达成一点共识,这本身就是很大的进步了。
哥城做生物质能,也做环境其他相关,污水雨水什么的。。。
请教不敢当,简单提供给您一些我知道的信息,
明末是小冰河时期,little ice age period,干旱是因为气温下降降雨带南移。人类发展过程中气候因素起到了相当决定性的作用。冰河时期时间可以维持超过一百万年,地球形成以来冰河时期曾出现过十一次,上一个冰河时期称为“大冰河时代”,发生于距今一万八千年前,结束于一万年前,当时地球约三分之一的陆地被覆盖在240米厚的冰层下。
链接的网址:
有时候想,温室效应加剧,全球变暖,甘肃会不会在出现云梦大泽。氧气含量上升,中国人身高会不会从各个身高丈二,满街姚明。甚至小恐龙体型的动物再现。不过这些恐怕不是人类可以控制的。现代科技在自然的巨手面前卑微的可以忽略,现代人太自大了。。
大概两三周前,华尔街日报的“观点意见”板登了一篇某纽约州众议员(?不确定)的来信,,明白的说Obama和民主党国会搞的这个"Cap and trade"对纽约州的经济有好处,这种交易正是华尔街的强项。无论是就业还是税收,又是一个新增长点。不过读者来信一片骂声,不少把华尔街最近几年的丑事翻出来,连损带挖苦的。
另外,华尔街日报网站上对无论是哥本哈根协议的投票,还是对穷国援助,都是一边倒的反对。我记得当希拉里前天提出发达国家每年出钱的总数时,网上投票反对美国出钱的占98.3%.以美国目前民众的心理状态看,根本不可能接受任何要求美国做出重大牺牲的协议。