主题:remote viewer and FBI psychic investigator -- simplyred
如果这能说明什么,那我也可以说,没有大量的失败,强差人意的结果,美国政府根本不会取消计划,拨款也不会那么寒酸。
其实嘛,这些话啥也说明不了。Hyman既没有声称这些实验证明遥视不存在,Utts也无法说服山姆大叔实验证明遥视存在,而且有潜力值得挖掘,如此而已。
总之,事实就是,计划被认为没有继续的价值而终止。
当然啦,计划中止而已,什么也证明不了。您可以继续持有以往的观点,可以继续作出各种阴谋论假设,我也不可能把那1%的绝密偷出来告诉大家这些文件同样没有说明遥视存在,没有隐瞒了某些超能力发现。
这里只节录StarGate评估报告的结论部份。Hyman或Utts的部份请看本主题最下面的连结。
http://www.parascope.com/en/articles/starGateReport05.htm
The experimental research conducted as part of the current program does not unambiguously support the interpretation of the results in terms of a paranormal phenomenon.
Failure to provide evidence that independent judges arrive at similar conclusions makes it difficult to unambiguously determine whether the observed effects can be attributed to the remote viewers' (paranormal) ability, to the ability of the judge to interpret ambiguous information, or to the combination or interaction of the viewers and the judge. Furthermore, given the Principal Investigator's familiarity with the viewers, the target set, and the experimental procedures, it is possible that subtle, unintentional factors may have influenced the results obtained in these studies. Thus, until it can be shown that independent judges agree, and similar effects are obtained in studies using independent judges, it cannot be said that adequate evidence has been provided for existence of the remote viewing phenomenon.
Our conclusion is that at this juncture it would be premature to assume that we have a convincing demonstration of a paranormal phenomenon. In fact, until a plausible causal mechanism has been identified, and competing explanations carefully investigated, we cannot interpret the set of anomalous observations localized to one laboratory with one set of methods. Given these observations, and the methodological problems noted above, we must conclude that:
Adequate experimental and theoretical evidence for the existence of remote viewing as a parapsychological phenomenon has not been provided by the research component of current program. A significant change in focus and methods would be necessary to justify additional laboratory research within the current program.
This is not to say definitively that paranormal phenomena do not exist. At some point in time, adequate evidence might be provided for the existence of remote viewing. With this point in mind, we considered the potential applications of remote viewing in intelligence gathering.
The first consideration involves the conditions under which remote viewing occurs and if those conditions constrain its application for intelligence purposes. Prior research suggests that distance is not a constraint and, indeed, that a sender or "beacon" may not be necessary. However, other characteristics of intelligence gathering indicate that remote viewing is of little value. Intelligence operations do not provide targets of a fixed bandwidth; rather, targets and target types are highly variable. Moreover, the apparent necessity for feedback to the remote viewers would preclude its use in intelligence gathering operations. Finally, intelligence information is most valuable if it is concrete and specific, and reliably interpretable. Unfortunately, the research conducted to date indicates that the remote viewing phenomenon fails to meet those preconditions. Therefore, we conclude that:
Remote viewing, as exemplified by the efforts in the current program, has not been shown to have value in intelligence operations.
This point was also graphically illustrated in the user interviews, where it was found that remote viewings have never provided an adequate basis for "actionable" intelligence operations -- that is, information sufficiently valuable or compelling so that action was taken as a result. If a phenomenon does not contribute to intelligence operations, it is difficult to see what justification exists for its continued application. This is particularly true in the case of remote viewing, where a large amount of irrelevant, erroneous information is provided and little agreement is observed among viewers' reports.
Particularly troublesome from the perspective of the application of paranormal phenomena is the fact that the remote viewers and project managers reported that remote viewing reports were changed to make them consistent with known background cues. While this was appropriate in that situation, it makes it impossible to interpret the role of the paranormal phenomenon independently. Also, it raises some doubts about some well publicized cases of dramatic hits, which, if taken at face value, could not easily be attributed to background cues. In at least some of these cases, there is reason to suspect, based on both subsequent investigations and the viewers' statement that reports had been "changed" by previous program managers, that substantially more background information was available than one might at first assume. Give these observations, it is difficult to argue that available evidence justifies application of remote viewing in intelligence operations.
In summary, two clear-out conclusion emerge from our examination of the operational component of the current program. First, as stated above, evidence for the operational value of remote viewing is not available, even after a decade of attempts. Second, it is unlikely that remote viewing -- as currently understood -- even if its existence can be unequivocally demonstrated, will prove of any use in intelligence gathering due to the conditions and constraints applying in intelligence operations and the suspected characteristics of the phenomenon. We conclude that:
Continued support for the operational component of the current program is not justified.
要贴也选些比较有质素的贴好不好?比如Utts的。
真是这样吗?举一个简单的例子:“睡觉”这是每个人都会的,然而要你当著许多陌生人面前,在众目睽睽之下表演睡觉,而且要在一定时间内马上入睡,成功的例子可能不多。如果由于有一次不能成功入睡,就判断你不会睡觉,或者下个结论说人类根本没有睡觉这样的功能,这不是太失之武断了吗? [衲注:精辟!]
但是这些特异功能人士为什么偶尔要作弊呢?又怎么保证他所做成功的实验不是作弊的呢?这和功能人的心态有关。功能人大部份知识水准不高,比如张宝胜小学都没有毕业,他能享有大名被奉为国宝级人物就是靠他这项特殊能力,因此他心态上总认为每次实验都要成功,才能保持他国宝的声誉,而不能理解科学上只要成功一次就是了不起的大事,而作弊一次则将令名誉扫地。
岂止精辟,简直无敌了。总之,无论实验失败,还是发现作弊,都永远不能下否定结论,因为失败正常,作弊有理,只有‘实验成功’才重要。按这种方法我不知道还有什么是不能证明的。别人重复失败?发现作弊?切,那又怎样?你能否证一切可能性吗?哈哈,不能吧,这不,没话可说了吧。
确实是十分‘不可思议’,否则以‘人体科学’的潜在应用价值,尤其是军事应用价值,也不可能只有每年一百万的研究经费。
对了,二战时期有不少认同纳粹的出色科学家、工程师。别告诉我他们都是傻子。所以......?
我不知道这说明了什么。我也不知道我国某些官员相信超自然现象或人体科学说明了什么。您想说明什么?
非常严格而客观的实验结果!完全具有可重复性!
然后?
然后全国人民震惊了,世界人民震惊了。
然后全世界爆发人体科学研究热潮,各国政府纷纷成立超念小组。
而在有超念之国之称的中国,其最出色的超念行动部门则被称为——“A组”。(哦,对不起,说串了)
怎么总觉得不对呢。这样一个大国对如此有前途的科研领域竟然只给一百万的经费!是不是有人贪污!
算了,说认真的。
我觉得一面之词不能听太多,对各种主张,起码是非常主张,必须be skeptical。您贴的某些文摘客观程度实在值得怀疑,比如那位著名台大校长(从他当选校长时就听说了)的文章,立场太明显了,谁知道修饰的东西有多少,歪曲的东西有多少,谎话有多少,反正我是信不过的。我没有精力和兴趣去调查这位校长先生,寻找各种证据去打他的假,但基本的思辨能力还是有的---要是真的证据确切、方法严谨地得出如此结论(成功率‘蛮高’?怎么看都跟严谨、科学不沾边),拿炸药奖也是早晚的事,起码在主流心理学界不会见不到这些内容,毕竟我也读过几年书。在我看来,此人有问题的可能性比其结论正确的可能性要大多啦。
有意思,有意思,科学上东东真的只用成功一次就成了吗?真的吗?真的吗?科研终于变得容易了,咱们咸与科研吧!
由于他搞的特异功能的研究. 但他们到李氏的实验室观摩那些特异功能的实验以后, 都哑口无言了.
早有更专业的科学家质疑过了. 你没有调查,却纯粹出于你的成见妄下结论, 岂不是"立场太明显了", "怎么看都跟严谨、科学不沾边", "有问题的可能性比其结论正确的可能性要大多啦"?
"遥视"的培训已经广泛进入美国民间, 早晚被主流心理学界所认可.
不错,我认为这个领域拿炸药奖确实是早晚的事(当然不一定是李氏), 等到有理论可以定量地解释和预测人体特异功能时.
岂止精辟,简直无敌了。总之,无论实验失败,还是发现作弊,都永远不能下否定结论,因为失败正常,作弊有理,只有‘实验成功’才重要。按这种方法我不知道还有什么是不能证明的。别人重复失败?发现作弊?...
逻辑上不合理。
谁怀疑谁据证~
现在对传统的看法提出疑问,是举了这个例子,不管失败了几次,只要有一次试验有效,对置疑的一方来讲都是有利的。至少说明怀疑一方有部分是正确的,失败之处可能有很多原因,比如试验方法之类。理论还是很简单,假设-试验-推论。你可以认为搞这种研究的都是疯子,也许他失败了99次,但是只要他成功一次,就是质的变化~
现在的理论不是全能全知的,只要承认这一点,恐怕就不会这么愤怒~
不承认这一点恐怕就是搞神学了,自我在自我中满足了,也不需要这么愤怒~
ps,也就在网上我yy这么多了,在现实生活里我才懒得讲那么多呢。去年我遇到我师父之前也跟你这么想,什么遥视预言,都是yy。长点见识后就不会这么鲁莽~好像有点失礼的说~:)
1918年6月,一位美国人对日蚀的观察也没有得到任何结果。
到目前为止, 科学家还没有观察到光线的弯曲, 这证明相对论是假的吗?
这一次的实验观测, 就奠定了相对论的实验基础. 1919年11月7日,爱因斯坦的传奇故事开始了...
当然后来科学家们又做了各种实验来验证相对论, 但在当时, 实验验证只有这一个, 这一个就足够了!
-------------------
看看这次实验结果的清晰度:
到最后两三夜,底片的那层灰色天幕上,似乎出现了一些黑点。可是非常模糊,若有若无。爱丁顿把这几张有黑点的底片,和格林尼治天文台拍的夜空里的金牛座的照片比较。不行!这些星星太模糊,而且离太阳太远,比较不出结果来。最后,终于出现了一张底片,灰色的天幕上,紧挨着太阳,有几个非常清晰的黑点。
去索布腊尔的远征队早回来了。他们拍的照片之中,有些也模糊不清,但是有七张,和爱丁顿的那一张是一致的。爱丁顿经过反复计算、核对,排除一切误差、干扰,最后他完全有把握了:日全蚀的观测,精确地证实了爱因斯坦的广义相对论。
嗯,八张底片上的黑点而已. 还不如特异功能实验的可重复性.
从100个数里抽一个你想要的数,失败了99次,一次成功了,这是质的变化么?当然,这对于一个考抽数来赌博的人来说是质的变化,那么严格一点说,这个理论上质的变化么?就可以以此认为“我想抽哪个数就抽得到”了么?
现在的理论不是全知的,但是要得到一个能解释更多的理论,要付出的努力也是相当大的。知道现在的理论有欠缺和证实新的理论之间是有相当大的gap的。
有空说说你师父的故事?
没记错的话。
你说的这个例子性质不同,你那个是随机。我举的是有理论有试验有结果的例子。
比方说吧,在佛教里有一套说法,是本体论也就是真如,对于这个真如,暂且叫他假设吧,释迦佛讲了一套方法,算是试验方法,最后得出结果。神通之类的不过是副产物。
对于这些神通现象,某些人,不管信佛不信佛,他们做了一些试验,有些试验成功有些试验失败,但是只要有一个试验成功(恐怕多的很吧),证明了某个神通的存在,这个就是质变~(对不信的人来讲)。就像第一个吃螃蟹的人,在他以前,通常是认为螃蟹不可以吃的,(但实际上是可以吃,只是大家都不知道)现在有人做了个试验,吃了,觉得味道不错,对于那些觉得螃蟹不能吃的人来讲,这个就是质变~
您所说的"每年一百万的研究经费", 嫌太少了吗? 要知道那是80年代, 军费狂砍, 为国民经济让步的情况之下.
李嗣涔相信了何祚庥的所谓测试结果. 嘿嘿,李到底只是个科学家, 不知政治黑幕, 天真啊!
运用您的逻辑: 何祚庥的"客观程度实在值得怀疑"(参见关洪的<<层子模型前后>>链接出处, 何一贯地迎合上意跳出来作打手), 何的"立场太明显了,谁知道修饰的东西有多少,歪曲的东西有多少,谎话有多少?" "反正我是信不过的" 我看这是故意给张宝胜栽赃, 欲加之罪, 何患无词? 譬如"恶霸"刘文采就是这样.
关键是“证明"了,实验的结果和要验证的理论之间有没有必然的联系。
如同一百次抽到一次想要的牌不能证明他想抽什么就抽什么一样,一次正确的预测能证明的理论相当有限。
嗯,这个小组还存在么?
说得好. 反人体科学的运动和大跃进有得一拼--都是最高领导个人推动的.
原来您也知道相对论呀哇?能否容我问几个问题,人家这“一次成功”和您的“成功一次”真的是一码事吗?人家后来是不是就靠着这一次成功说事儿?相对论现在又有了多少次成功?这些成功之间有没有紧密地逻辑上的联系?是不是现在的一次不成功就意味着那第一次的“成功”可能有问题?
对了,最好也不要动不动就拉扯上相对论。第一,人家不是靠一次成功,或偶尔成功吃饭的。第二,人家的成功跟超能力成不成功没啥关系。
不成功不是特异功能的错,但‘不成功的’表现的却比‘成功的’还成功就让人郁闷了。
对了,大师您能不能讨论一些个层次不那么高的问题,这一张嘴就是个生命,灵魂,星系,超星系,要么超自然,真的是挺吓人的。比如,您能不能从佛学角度或灵魂角度或纯能量角度或地狱的角度谈谈为啥叶绿素能进行光合作用,听说这玩意儿也能得炸药奖。