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主题:【整理】企业解读案例:国光瓷业的一地鸡毛1 -- wqnsihs

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                          • 家园 我与法国的一些银行打过交道,就有你说的里昂信贷银行,也有

                            巴黎巴,农业信贷,东方汇理等等,他们的习惯比较接近中国官员,例如对礼物,回扣,各种招待都来者不拒(德国人就很洁身自好),而且法国人比中国人还糟糕的是拿钱不办事情。中国人的传统是拿人钱财为人消灾,只要拿钱,一定会帮助你,法国人不同,拿钱后也不一定帮助你,说不定还是你的对头。按中国人观点,这是一个缺乏信义的民族。

                            • 家园 我以前一个法国老板,刚来中国就被一家日本准

                              供应商给勾兑了——貌似搞得很机密,但这种事情哪有秘密可言。结果只要是谈到采购上的事情,这法国佬就让我们先去问问这家日本厂商有没有,一点也不知道遮掩。这法国佬后来还高升了,估计没少给亚太区的老大勾兑。

                              拿钱收礼不办事儿,日本人也有点这毛病。遇到过很知名的日本客户,刚接触的那几天,谈到快下班的时候,就集体暗示我们晚上要活动。比如说“我唱卡拉OK很OK,需要见识一下么?”,“X桑你的酒量如何?”这类很有科长风格的话。

                              客户主动提这种要求,虽然觉得很奇怪,但还是高兴的,这意味着可以勾兑么,将来能省老鼻子劲儿。于是不惜血本地跟日本客户搞。连续搞了差不多一个月,发现这帮鬼子真是公私分明啊——白天像神一样跟你死抠字眼条款质量价格,晚上像鬼一样的勾肩搭背连吃带拿,一觉醒来又变成神了,仿佛头天晚上的事儿根本没发生过。

                              这小30天的招待费花了几百万,也没见啥历史性突破,我们经理差点被开除了。当然我们这些小兵还是很开心的,工作不久就深刻领会了“公款是最大的大款”这句名言。哈哈。

                            • 家园 礼物,回扣,各种招待都来者不拒 because

                              Frenchmen are quite poor compared with their American counterparts.

                              They dress well, spend most money on facelift, nice dinners and sports activity. Thus creates this kind of facade of well-off.

                              If you really live among them for long time, and understand their tax and social security system, you will see how poor this country is.

                              Frenchmen are as pretentious as the poor Chinese in 1950s/1970s. Both 死要面子

                              • 家园 以前去美国总部开会,有一个同事是法国图努斯的,我们

                                出去购物的时候,她一共买了10条levi's的牛仔裤。问她原因,原来都是帮亲戚朋友带的,她说美国的levi's的牛仔裤的价格是20多到7-80美金,在法国就要卖到100多到两、三百美金。所以知道她要来美国,大家都先到法国的专卖店试好款式、尺码,然后抄下来到美国买。

                              • 家园 以前在法国南部住过2个月

                                当地老百姓的生活还是不错的。当然要论收入,是比不上美国德国,印象中当地人大多数每月工资不到2000欧元。但不管怎样,比意大利好多了。罗马的城市建设感觉和90年代的北京差不多。

                              • 家园 你这个说法实在让我大长见识,因为我们这一代受的教育都是

                                法国是优雅的,是浪漫的,是轻松的。我们看到的法国是从巴尔扎克,雨果,缪塞,大仲马,乔治桑,普鲁斯特,夏多布里昂,罗曼罗兰等等眼中看到的法国,是圣桑,柏辽兹,德彪西,拉威尔,比才等等耳朵中听到的法国,在当时选择自己未来出国的第一目标地就是法国。法国乡间的静谧和安详,富足和温润都让我很欣赏。看来什么东西都不能凭表面印象和走马观花。

                                • 家园 法国乡间的静谧和安详,富足和温润 because

                                  1.there is no Cultural Revolution in the last 100 years outside Paris any more. The bloody religious war was gone forever after Napoleon completely destroyed the Catholic church force.

                                  2.WWI and WWII damaged only Paris and Northern France, which used to be low in industrialization and natural resources. The southern part is free from any damage of the two wars.

                                  In sum, no systematic destruction of wealth. Thus wealth/cultural relics/infrastructure gets accumulated to today.

                                  BTW, those writers--they are good at blah-blah romanticizing the real world, so do not take their words too seriously.

                                  Why AVERAGE Frenchmen's life is not as good as in US?

                                  --France is a protective nation and reluctant in outsourcing their consumer products to Asia. It protects its car industry and ends up with one of the most incompetent car industry in Europe.

                                  --Distribution system in France is very inefficient, just like in China. Market is segmented (e.g., wine-thousands of selection; cheese--ten thousands of selection...).

                                  In sum, high production cost+ low distribution efficiency.

                                  Unlike America, where you can seldomly see local features in food and clothing, in France, there is HUGE inter-provincial difference in both of them.

                                  In sum, US/China has the scale to achieve MASS PRODUCTION AND MASS DISTRIBUTION. Most European nations can only envy America for that--that's the comment from my European friend. I should more accurately say China has the "potential".

                                  Uncle Mang--you need to travel more outside China and imitate Deng Xiaopin, not the Chairman Mao. Anyway, you are rich and close to retirement, why not bring your beloved wife to Europe and live in all kinds of charming places for a while, say at least 1 month in each place (I recommend Barcelona, Paris, Southern France, Southern Germany, Northern England, Northern Belgium (Brugge) and Luxumberg).

                                  You do not have kids or grandchildren to worry about. It is time to enjoy life. You may reach certain age in the future that you can no longer enjoy life in that way. Life is short and you can not single-handedly reshape China no matter how many more overtime hours you work there.

                                  China (public sector, not private sector) lacks right incentive and promotion system--that's not something you can change.

                                  • 家园 能不能说说为啥推荐这几个地方?巴黎去过

                                    路标不明确。最搞笑的是坐火车到凡尔赛,火车到终点站的时候,因为站台的名字和凡尔赛的名字不太一样,一火车的人都不知道该不该下车。过了一会发现火车不再开了,旅客才下车。这一点瑞士作的很好,到tourist information,连旅游路线都给标好了。

                                    北部英格兰应该都是工业城市吧?英国旅游还是到伦敦比较好。

                                  • 家园 谢谢关心。我觉得除非长时间在国外环境中生活,否则不管这么

                                    都仅仅是观察者而不是体验者。文化上的差异和语言上的隔阂,实际上出去都是雾里看花,很多东西都是自己在想象,而且带有原来环境的想象。这一点我看梁启超的《欧游心影录》体会特别深,他看到的不是真正的欧洲,而是自己心目中的欧洲。我们出去也一样。文化隔阂大大大于地理隔阂。不过是否理解欧洲现在对我已经意义不是很大,因为我已经不会再做什么具体事情了。

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