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主题:【温故知新沈崇案】1.沈崇和谭卓 -- 陈郢客

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家园 对胡适的评价确实很到位

身在P大,觉得关于两个人的崇拜完全被塑造成了一种意识形态,一个是蔡元培,一个就是胡适。

家园 鲜花怒放

惊喜:所有加你为好友的,在本帖先送花者得【通宝】一枚

鲜花已经成功送出。

此次送花为【有效送花赞扬,涨乐善、声望】

家园 俺怎么看到是乱码? 难道是RP问题? -- 回复以后可以

奇怪,回复之后可以看到正常内容.

点看全图

家园 西河那会儿系统不稳定,全乱了。我又重发的。

还有一次莫名其妙发到了主贴上。唉。

家园 陈MM, 俺理解您, 相信您,那不是您的错

唉。

家园 诚哉斯言!花!
家园 胡胡适就是总觉得自己很牛逼的 孱头 一个,

胡适就是总觉得自己很牛逼的 孱头 一个,所以特别对中国这些小文人的胃口。

家园 谢谢, 还以为一直再改又出了新功能, 非回复不能读帖也
家园 贴几段法庭上的细节

来自XIXIAO GUO的“The Anticlimax of an Ill-starred Sino-American Encounter”,发表在Modern Asian Studies 35, 1 (2001), pp. 217-244。链接:外链出处

By an order of the Commanding General, 1st Marine Division(Reinforced), a general court-martial was convened at the Fifth Marines Headquarters in Peiping. Among the seven American officers of the court, five were empowered to act. As the judge advocate, Lieutenant Colonel Paul A. Fitzgerald was to represent the prosecution. The Chinese had no say except as witnesses. Shen Chung was to be the prosecutrix, not the plaintiff. Her legal counsels could do nothing but observe the trial.
Pierson, as the accused, had two counsels, Lieutenant Colonel John H. Masters and First Lieutenant Stanley E. Kramek, who would represent him, examine and crossexamine the witnesses.
The audience was restricted to Shen Chung's father, her brother-in-law, Hu Shi, two of the legal advisers, a representative of the Peiping Police Bureau, and a dozen Chinese and foreign reporters. Among the 27 witnesses, 12 were Chinese, none spoke English.During the trial, the American court, the judge advocate, and the counsels of the accused communicated with the Chinese witnesses through translators.

沈崇不是原告(plaintiff),代表她的是官居judge advocate的Paul A. Fitzgerald,她的两个法律顾问在法庭上不能发言。Pierson有两个律师,帮他向证人问话,显然这两位是可以发言的。法庭上从始到终用英文,中国的12个证人没有一个会讲英文,他们的话都是被翻译过去的。

The trial lasted from 17 to 22 January.The accused made no statement that Pierson had known Shen Chung prior to the incident or that Shen prostituted herself. Pierson did not even testify. Shen Chung, on the other hand, insisted that she had never seen Pierson and the other marine until they abducted her, and that none of them mentioned money.
Other facts established by the court included (1) from about 8:30 to 10:30 p.m.that evening Pierson and Shen Chung were out on the Tung Tan Polo Field; and (2) during this period intercourse took place between the two.

Pierson根本没提他之前认识沈崇的事情——而他在以前的口供里提到过,美联社也是如此做宣传的。

Richard I. Nowak, a witness called by the defense, said that Pierson had been drinking from 4 p.m. to 8 p.m. at the Manhattan Club on Christmas Eve. He was 'a little bit drunk,' Nowak said, and when he walked 'he staggered a little bit.' Alvin W. Goldsmith, a marine MP on duty that evening, told the court that about 11:15 p.m. Pierson stopped his jeep and told him 'the Chinese police had taken his girl from him and he would like me to get her back for him.' At that point, Goldsmith noted, Pierson was 'intoxicated' and his manner was 'loud.'

美方证人拼命想减轻Pierson的罪行,前后一致地都说他喝高了——尽管在寒风中吹了三个多小时,到了11点多,仍然没清醒。Alvin W. Goldsmith在这里说谎,Pierson找他的时候说了"he would like me to get her back for him"了吗?!

About the fact that the Pierson and Shen Chung stayed 'on that cold inhospitable parade ground for a period of about three hours and have intercourse two or three times,' the defense counsel Masters attributed it to 'a primitive urge that is as old as man himself.'This called attention to the corporal's long-term foreign service since July 1941; it implied that the US government was somewhat responsible for the situation.

律师的借口之一:Pierson服役时间太长了,有五年多了。

Yet his demeanor, as two members of the court, Major Charles J. Bailey, Jr. and Major Frank H. Vogel, observed, 'suggested that he was dull and slow witted.' The two members apparently suggested that the combination of low intellect and the sexual want caused by prolonged abroad service explained Pierson's behavior that night. Among the reasons that they listed for clemency were his drunkenness, slow wit, previous good character, and protracted overseas service.

借口之二、三、四:喝醉了,笨,以前是好人。

Shen Chung,‘plain,'‘fairly husky,' yet richly dressed in a fur coat and fairly articulate in her testimony, projected an image of a maiden from a privileged Chinese family.

The marine court showed no interest in ethics; yet it closely examined Shen Chung's financial situation and apparently accepted her as a 'sheltered' girl who had no need to sell sex for money. For reasons unknown, neither Pierson nor Pritchard testified. Their previous statements to the marine police were not mentioned at all.
Thus Shen Chung was the only one who gave a full account about what happened between the two marines and her. In vivid detail she related how Pierson forced upon her, how Pritchard helped him to subdue her, and how she resisted, though eventually failed.

Pierson在法庭上根本没提他之前作口供的时候说的:“沈崇是妓女,他们之间商量好了价钱”之类的话。为什么呢?“For reasons unknown”。可以想象,沈崇的法律顾问憋足了劲儿要证明Pierson之前的口供为假,然而美方的策略是认罪(闭口不提以前的Pierson口供),然后找各种各样减刑的理由,让沈崇这边打过去的拳头,没处着力。

On the fifth day of the trial, the court found Pierson guilty of rape. It sentenced him 'to be reduced to the rank of private, to be confined for a period of fifteen (15) years, to be dishonorably discharged from the US naval service, and to suffer all the other accessories of said sentence as prescribed by Section 322, Naval Courts and Boards.'
After the verdict was announced, Hu Shi and his two legal advisers, 'pleased that they had won the case, shook hands with one another.' The KMT government now gained what it needed to quell the agitating students. Although the verdict was subject to the final approval of the US secretary of the Navy, the Chinese were momentarily appeased.

结案。KMT government认为它是最大的胜利者。

这篇文章的材料多是来源于《Record of Proceedings, Case of William G. Pierson》,应该就是谢泳说的那份《美国档案》吧。

前后两次给沈崇做检查的那位美国军医,Percival Clark,文中倒没有提及。猜测法庭上把大部分时间花在怎么才能给Pierson减刑上边。


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家园 【讨论】美国的法律体系恐怕一直就是如此

在我的印象里,在美国,受害人是不可以对嫌疑人进行刑事起诉的,进行民事则是可以的。

刑事起诉只有检察官才可以进行,犯罪嫌疑人可以请律师,但是检察官代表了受害者的利益,所以至少是在法庭上,受害人除了作为证人以外,是不可以有自己律师来控告犯罪嫌疑人的。

如果我记的没有错,那这就是游戏的玩法,应该没有什么手脚和歧视在里面。

真正的关键是为什么在华美军在二战结束之后仍然享受领事裁判权,如果他们在46年可以和当时在华的美国平民一样不享受这个特权,而是上国内的法庭的话,这件事情就简单了很多。

记忆里,老蒋直到66年才争来了这个权力,从那以后,美军在台犯民事案件才不受美国的避护,而是交由国民党审判。

希望我没有记错。

河里在美国拿律师牌的很多,他们应该更有发言权。

家园 我不懂美国的法律

我有两个问题:

刑事起诉是不是必须由检察官提出?

受害人的律师是否可以在法庭发言?

家园 关键问题是:胡适代表什么人

毛批评王明,说他考虑自己问题太少,考虑别人问题太多。此处自己指中国党、中国人,别人指苏联党、苏联人。毛的这句话说得非常透彻、深刻。

也就是说,毛认为王明并不代表中国某一部分人的利益,他代表苏联在中国、中国革命中的利益。

那么关键问题是:胡适代表什么人的利益?

只要看一看,1948年底傅作义就大局请教于胡适,胡适给傅作义出的主意,就能够看清胡适代表什么人的利益了。

所以说,我不认为“胡适是有大局观的体制内人物”,我也不认为他代表国民党、中华民国政府的利益,他不代表中国工人、农民、军人、资本家、地主的利益,他也不代表中国知识分子的根本利益。

我认为“今天中国也还需要这样的人才”,但我认为,绝不可使王明、胡适这一类人在中国的学术、文化、经济、产业、政治、社会、军事等各个方面占有主导地位。

家园 这是军法审判

法官,检察官,辩护律师都由军法部门出,陪审团都是军人.

家园 花谢!
家园 这不是军法审判,这是治外法权

第一,这是涉民普通刑事案件。

第二,这是在军事管辖地以外发生的。

在美国海军陆战队里面,真正涉及军法的,由MP处理,军官组成的Court Martial审理。在军队里发生,属普通法律范畴的,归军队内civilian police处理(有名的NCIS),军队内civilian court处理。在基地以外发生,属普通法律范畴的,归当地警察和当地法院处理。在美国本土是这样,在中国、日本、韩国为什么两样了呢?

最近菲律宾发生地美海军陆战队队员Daniel Smith强奸案,在菲总统的力争下,最后由菲法庭开审。


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