西西河

主题:【原创】这是俺翻译的一封藏独的信,这里高手多,请大家批判 -- 龙二

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家园 Bravo!!我都看呆了。太帅了!
家园 纠正个错误。

喇嘛里面是有性侵犯儿童的问题的,问题还很严重。通常一些大喇嘛会配有一些小跟班(藏文名字叫啥来着?),这些儿童就成为大家都默认的大喇嘛的性奴。我好像是在美国《国家地理》杂志上看的。

家园 说的太好了,不得不花
家园 感谢支持。改了一下版

另外修改了一些明显的错误。

喇嘛寺里的侵犯男童问题的确非常猖獗。无论男童自愿与否,即使在喇嘛治理西藏的时候也是不敢拿到台面上公开讲的。

如果还有什么错误或不清楚的地方欢迎指出。

家园 要是找到扫描上来,送花五朵!

说到做到!

家园 【原创】我的评论

我认为,问题出在中国的自我意识上。在西方殖民者到来之前,中国一向认为自己是“世界中心的国”,是唯一真正的文明,所谓“溥天之下,莫非王土,率土之滨,莫非王臣”。它的疆域是没有界限的。所有邻族都是蛮夷,须经开化,但本质上也是中国的一部分。

藏人对这种世界观从不领会也不接受,不过他们对此也无所谓。他们把中国皇帝的干预只视作不同民族的利益冲突。

后来满清的时候----他们的第一个皇帝是佛教徒,并且他们也曾是蛮夷----是视中国和西藏为“领主和僧侣”关系的(达赖原话,„ Patron -Priester"(德语),即不承认西藏受过中国统治)。他们是作为佛学老师和顾问出现的(就是帝师吧),满清皇帝也用军队保护西藏并推行佛教。

鸦片战争摧毁了中国的这种世界观,他们认识到他们不是世上唯一的文明,西方人比他们甚至更胜一筹。这种震撼或多或少也导致了中国对西藏的这种强硬态度。当民族运动开始以后,中国的革命者除了把西藏和蒙古列入版图外没有其它的选择。所有其它的作法都是自我意识的削弱。民族的独立或版图上的“分裂”,在中国历史上从来是被视作一种衰弱的表现。所以“统一的中国”一直被反复强调着。

但问题在于,西藏人完全不是那种中国式儒家世界观。他们生活在一个完全不同的世界里。他们认为如果有什么皇帝,那皇帝就跟活佛没什么两样,而且也是得由达赖喇嘛册封的。(看起来她认识的藏人是跟达赖跑出来的那一拨)

把西藏问题归结为西藏人和汉人世界观不同是没有依据的.中国五十六个民族,都有自己的世界观.但其中坚持政教分离,没有前奴隶主流亡政府的五十几个民族都没有类似问题.

在1911年到1950年关于西藏归属的协商中,西藏一直认为中国和西藏是“领主—僧侣”的关系,而中国一直认为西藏是“中国不可分割的一部分”。

事实是,中国对藏区的影响非常之小。甚至不属于达赖辖区的藏区—比如在云南,甘肃,青海,四川的藏族地区,除了进贡以外皇帝的存在基本没有什么意义。这些地区都是由领主或土司管理的。

所有中国制定的:官方语言—或者至少说是文字,吏制—以四书五经教育为必须的,书面语和文化的认同,儒家及儒家的价值观等等,对西藏完全没有意义。

在达赖喇嘛统治下的藏区有自己的货币,自己的军队,自己的政府,特殊的社会结构,自己的宗教,自己的建筑风格和自己的文学艺术,都是作为一个民族所特有的。二十世纪初的时候,他们还有自己的民族旗帜,国歌和护照—在英国和美国被承认的。

不符合历史事实,西方国家的外交政策一直是承认西藏是中国一部分的.1910-1950,达赖对西藏有实际控制,但这不等于独立.当时四川,广西,东北的军阀,也是对地方有实际控制,但这不是独立,而是政府由于外国入侵和军阀混战对地方影响减小而已.从这点而言,达赖和当时的其他割据势力是一样的.

就象所说的,1950年中国武力吞并了西藏。西藏人跟本没有机会维护自己的利益。我觉得中国至今没有明白,他们以中国为中心的自我意识,多民族和 “溥天之下,莫非王土”的观点,对西藏人从来没有接受过,所以这种对中国来说是不言而喻的民族认同感以及“祖国”的归属感,对西藏来说,无论过去还是现在,都没有意义。

既然西藏是中国的一部分,1950年就不是武力吞并,而是社会制度的变化.

第二个问题是在那之后产生的—系统化地摧毁西藏的社会,摧毁传统的价值观。以及文革,令汉人同样饱受苦难的文革。对人权的蔑视,对自由言论的压制,一段对藏人同时也是对中国人同样悲惨可怕的历史。在中国近来通过对儒家的反思以及对经济文化上中国特色的强化在世界范围内被承认的同时,西藏特色被中国通过过渡移民,经济上的强势,强制绝育,汉语单语教育等等陷入消失的绝大的危险中--不是主流文化,就通过汉化令其不复存在(应该指的是变夷为夏的意思吧)。

作者显然对从前的西藏社会和西藏文化很推崇,不知作者是否知道那是一个5%的人奴役着95%的人的社会,在那个社会里,人们除了信达赖,没有信仰其他宗教的自由.人类社会是在不停的进步的,当农奴制和政教合一被改变,既得利益者当然会不满,可是对大多数藏人是有利的.

西藏的暴动是没有预谋的,但是藏人都知道,由于奥林匹克比赛整个世界都看中国,现在正是将世人的注意力吸引到自己这边的时候,中国的藏人和流亡的藏人等这样的一个机会已经很久了。在第一次示威游行和抗议被武力镇压以后,他们得知,整个世界在看,他们的行动就更狂野了。中国军队的强硬干涉又激起了其它省份藏人的愤怒—通过手机和英特网消息在几小时内传遍了所有藏区,所有藏人都行动起来了。

这是纯粹的臆测,更合理的解释是中国政府知道奥运会,没有傻到乱用武力的程度.如果西藏暴乱的人没有烧杀抢掠的话,政府不可能行动.

同索布不同的是,我可以喊“自由索布”而不必担心立即会有子弹射入我的胸膛,如果大多数我的族人在背后支持,我可以在政治上对我的民族有所作为而引起社会的变革。我可以,如果不喜欢在德国政权下的“索布”,没有生命威胁地离开我的国家,而后不被当作“间谍”或“分裂主义者”重新回到德国。所有这些藏人不可以。

作者可以喊自由索布,但是当作者煽动暴力分裂,或者是使用烧杀抢掠时,也会受到法律的制裁,而这些就是西藏流亡政府在做的.作者应该分清藏人和西藏流亡政府,前者是农奴们的子孙,不想回到农奴制,后者是奴隶主的后人,散布着种种关于藏人被迫害的谣言,想把西藏带回他们的奴隶制度下.

家园 刊物倒是好找,但我现在怀疑自己是不是误判了,我再想想在那里看到的

这是关于西藏。外链出处

这是中国特刊,有关于四五十年代拉萨的回忆录。

外链出处

可我找不到那个内容了。是写现在的喇嘛庙的。近来看西藏的东西是太多了。抱歉哈。

我会尽量找的。

家园 那就先花一朵吧
家园 找到了。没错,就在国家地理那篇文章里面。

The great monasteries counted members in the thousands and owned huge tracts of farming and grazing land. They enjoyed the right to use peasants as laborers and to recruit little boys, some of whom they may have used for sex. Claiming moral outrage, although in reality far more concerned with loosening Buddhism's hold on Tibetans, the Chinese have jailed thousands of monks during their occupation.

In Lhasa, I spoke with 73-year-old Tashi Tsering,who also allowed me to use his real name. He said that at the age of ten he'd been recruited into the Dalai Lama's dance troupe and chose to become a drombo, or passive sex partner, for a senior monk. Tsering, who has written a book about his life, said the drombo practice was widespread, but I was unable to find any other Tibetan willing to acknowledge awareness of this sexual activity in the monasteries.

外链出处

家园 我做了下功课,好像不是什么稀见的材料。

这个Tashi Tsering曾经和大藏学家,《西藏现代史(1913—1951)——喇嘛王国的覆灭》的作者戈尔斯坦合作过一本书:《扎西次仁自传》。国内有翻译。信息如下:

《西藏是我家: 扎西次仁的自传 : 一个西藏人告诉你一个真实的西藏 》(The Struggle for a Modern Tibet: the Autobiography of Tashi Tsering)/ 扎西次仁(Tashi Tsering)口述 ; (美)梅尔文·戈尔斯坦(Melvyn Goldstein),(美)威廉木·司本石初(William Siebenschuh)英文执笔 ; 杨和晋(Yang Ho-chin)译。香港 : 明镜出版社,2000年。

英文版:Melvyn Goldstein, William Siebenschuh, and Tashì-Tsering, The Struggle

for Modern Tibet: The Autobiography of Tashì-Tsering (Armonk, N.Y.: M.E.

Sharpe, 1997).

家园 还搜到一篇专门由此书此人写成的文章,此人竟是藏族红卫兵!

Tibetans and the Cultural Revolution

by Grain

It is important to understand the involvement of Tibetans during the Cultural Revolution.

I have done some research on the subject of Tibetan involvement during the Cultural Revolution. One informative book is "The Struggle for Modern Tibet, the Autobiography of Tashi Tsering", by one of the foremost American scholars on Tibet, Melvyn Goldstein, and William Siebenschuh, and Tashi Tsering.

Melvyn Goldstein had known Tashi Tsering for over two decades, and finally helped Tsering write an autobiography which is now an important record of one Tibetan's life through the old Tibetan society to the modernization of Tibet.

This book also happens to relate many details about the life of a Tibetan serf boy who worked for the Dalai Lama, came to the U.S. to study, then returned to China to end up participating in the Cultural Revolution. I will attempt to give a brief overview of the riveting accounts given by Tashi Tsering in his book.

Tashi Tsering is quite an ordinary and common name in Tibet. Many boys have this name. In Tibetan, "Tashi" means "good luck", and "Tsering" means "long life". One boy given this name was born a serf in the traditional Tibetan system. At the age of ten, he became his village's tax to the Dalai Lama's ceremonial dance troupe. He said, "In our village everyone hated this tax, as it literally meant losing a son, probably forever." (p. 11, The Struggle for Modern Tibet.)

His mother cried for days, and tried to bribe the village elders to spare him from being chosen, to no avail. Tashi himself was actually happy at the prospect of joining the troupe. For him, the task was a chance for education. He wanted very much to learn how to read and write.

At the dance school, Tashi quickly learned that "the teachers' idea of providing incentives was to punish us swiftly and severely for each mistake." (p.17)

"They constantly hit us on the faces, arms, and legs. When we ran to line up at the beginning of morning, for example, the first boy in line got to punish the later-comers with a slap across the face. Each boy got to punish the one below or behind him. It was terrible. I still have some of the scares from the almost daily beatings." Tashie soon learned that, "the teachers' methods had been used for centuries. They did exactly what their teachers had done to them, so these methods were considered perfectly normal and reasonable." (p.17)

Once, when Tashi missed a performance, he had to strip off his trousers, and was stretched to the ground to be lashed across his bare buttocks with long thin switches made from tree branches. "This centuries-old Tibetan punishment was the most painful kind of beating." (p. 4)

In addition to being physically beaten, he was also sexually assaulted by monks in the monastery that schooled him to dance. He said, "The incident reawakened my ambivalent feelings toward traditional Tibetan society. Once again its cruelty was thrust into my life. I wondered to myself how monasteries could allow such thugs to wear the holy robes of the Lord Buddha. When I talked to other monks and monk officials about the dobods, they shrugged and said simply that that was the way things were." (p. 29)

Tashi was not the only one suffering. The old China was a feudal society with many landlord taking advantages of the poor peasants. All across China, the rich abused the poor; the landlords often owned servants whom they beat and raped. And the peasants across China revolted.

China was trying to fight her way out of feudalism.

However, having lived for all of his life in Tibet, Tashi did not know much about central China. Being uneducated, some local Tibetans believed in rumors. They heard that the communists were atheists and enemies of the rich. "Rumors of all sorts flew everywhere; some even said that the Chinese were cannibals." (p. 36)

This is only thing I do not like about this book. I noticed that, to the local Tibetans, the people from central China were considered to be "Chinese". The reality is in central China, there are many different ethnics of people, including Tibetans who had migrated there. However, I can see "the Chinese" as a provincial term used by the Tibetans.

According to Tashi: by 1952, the PLA were more of a presence in Lhasa. His account of the beginning is quite interesting:

"The first troops had appeared in the city in September 1951, but initially they kept a low profile. However, as their number increased, they became more active and visible. I became fascinated by the ways they did things, which were so different from our ways. They fished in the rivers with worms on a hook and set out to become self-sufficient in food by using dog droppings and human waste they collected on the river. These were things we would never have thought of doing and, to be honest, found revolting. The Chinese wasted nothing; nothing was lost. So despite the revulsion, I was also overall fascinated by the extent of their zeal for efficiency and their discipline. They would not even take a needle from the people." (p. 40)

家园 续一

Tashi observed a difference between the traditional Tibetan bureaucracy, filled with embezzlement, and the way the early PLA functioned in Tibet. Some passages of Tsering's book reminds us that the early Communists were idealistic:

"I was attracted not only by their efficiency and energy but also by their apparent idealism". (p. 41)

"The Chinese worked tirelessly and with a sense of dedication and purpose. Soon after arriving, they opened the first primary school in Lhasa and a hospital as well as other public buildings. I had to admit that I was impressed by the fact that they were doing things that would directly benefit he common people. It was more change for the good in a shorter period of time than I had seen in my life - more changes, I was tempted to think, than Tibet had seen in centuries." (p. 41)

While a few young Tibetans decided to join the communists, others were not so sure. Tashi himself chose to go to India for an education.

Tension increased in 1956 when China launched social and agrarian reforms. "The changes angered the regional landowners and the lamas, and they rose up in arms." People began to wonder what it would all mean to the religion. The monks and aristocrats and even most commoners resisted any change. Anti-Han sentiments grew. The Dalai Lama fled to Inda. During his absence fights broke out, rebellion erupted. Other aristocrats and monk officials poured out of the country to join the Dalai Lama.

Tashi was already in India, studying, but his studies were interrupted when he, too, joined the force to help the Tibetans.

He was proud of his work for the Dalai Lama's government in exile, because for him, who had been born a serf, it was a real honor and prestige to be able to work alongside some noblemen.

One of his tasks was to interview refugees to record Chinese atrocities. He spent two weeks in a camp going from tent to tent interviewing every refugee he could, but found very little. "It turned out to be more difficult than I expected. Most of the people I spoke to were illiterate and did not have an orderly or logical way of controlling and expressing their thoughts. Moreover, their experiences were quite varied. Many had not even seen the actions of the Chinese army in Lhasa. They had simply been a part of the general panic that gripped the country, and their stories were of the sufferings they had incurred on the journey through the mountains, not at the hands of the Chinese. I had a hard time getting concrete evidence of Chinese atrocities." (p. 57)

"We put the materials we were translating together with similar eyewitness accounts from other refugee camps, and eventually they were presented to the International Commission of Jurists in Geneva, Switzerland, in 1960. The commission wrote a famous report condemning the Chinese for their atrocities in Tibet." (p. 57)

I found this part of the book very interesting. It points out the potential unfairness of certain respectable reports. Other articles have since pointed out that CIA originated many aspects of the Tibet movement.

Tashi Tsering's book is a fascinating account of one Tibetan's soul searching. His disenchantment grew when he realized that the noblemen never treated him as one of them. He was denied an opportunity for education which he desperately wanted. He was simply expected to work as a clerk for the elite.

Eventually he left the Dalai Lama's government in India as he found his own way to study in America, where he met Melvyn Goldstein.

As I read this book, I felt Tashi Tsering has one of the most interesting lives, and the most painful. While he could have stayed comfortably in America, he made the mistake of returning to China to work for a better Tibet right before the Cultural Revolution broke out. He spent some time studying at an university in northwest China along with many other Tibetans who were being trained to develop Tibet. The day the Cultural Revolution touched his campus, it was an exciting day for Tashi. The Tibetans in his school made the Han teachers kneel. And all the punishment the Tibetan students dealt the Han teachers were approved by the communist government, who viewed it as part of the cleansing of class structure. (For lengthy details of this day, see p. 102 of Struggle for Modern Tibet.)

It would be a mistake for anyone to think that only Han people punished Tibetans during the Cultural Revolution, that no Tibetans burned down temples. Many Tibetans had participated in the Cultural Revolution actively.

The madness of the Cultural Revolution meant that anyone who was an agent of persecution on one day could easily become the target of persecution on the next day. This eventually happened to Tashi. He became a prisoner. Of this part of his life, he wrote:

"My fellow prisoners were mainly teachers, writers, intellectuals, and officials from the school. There were both Han Chinese and Tibetans there. The Cultural Revolution did not let ethnic background influence the targets." (p. 121)

One of the passages in Tashi's book recounted that, during an interrogation on Tashi, a Tibetan interrogator repeatedly hit him. (P. 137)

Please cross reference this with Dorje Shugden Buddhist James Burns' discovery that "the beating so graphically shown of Tibetan Monks in these monasteries in the late 80's were not being carried out by the Chinese as was being suggested but were actually carried out by Tibetans". http://x41.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=371629091&CONTEXT=937187734.285933704 &hitnum=3

续一
家园 续二

Tashi Tsering's life in prison in central China was terrible, yet when he was eventually transferred to a prison in Tibet, food and facility became better.

"In spite of the extremely small cells, the physical conditions here were better than those of any of the prisons I had known in China. There were dim electric bulbs in each cell, and the walls and floors were concrete and a good deal warmer and drier than anything I had seen before. We got more food and freedom, too. There were three meals a day here, and we got butter tea, tsamba, and sometimes even meat,".. "Compared to what I'd been experiencing, these conditions amounted almost to luxury." (p. 132) He was given both Tibetan and Chinese newspapers while in the prison cell.

This is not to say China was reasonable during the Cultural Revolution, only that the CR was ethnic blind. Many bad things happened, and Tashi Tsering offered accurate accounts of many details.

Reading this book had helped me tremendously in understanding some realities of the Tibetan participation during the Cultural Revolution.

I would like to point out also, that this book is very riveting. Tashi's thirst for education came from a time when many in Tibet were uneducated. It saddened me to read how hard he struggled in his attempts to learn, and joined unfortunate events such as the Cultural Revolution.

Tashi gave an adventurous account of his youthful bravado, about a feud in his village that he later realized could have been avoided if people had better education. His longing for education eventually led him to his current task.

Here are some of Tashi Tsering's words: (p. 200)

"I don't pretend to have answers to the big questions anymore. I am in my sixties now, and as I look at the faces of the children at one or another of my schools, I worry about things that I didn't even think about when I was younger and had more energy and less experience. Who? or What? I sometimes ask myself now is the Tibet I am trying to help? Who represents Tibet? The Dalai Lama? The old elite now living in exile who made people like me wait outside the door when it came time to discuss important issues? The more progressive intellectuals in Tibet, or those in exile in India, America, and Europe?"

"I adamantly do not wish to return to anything like the old Tibetan theocratic feudal society, but I also do not think the price of change of modernity should be the loss of one's language and culture. The Cultural Revolution taught me how precious those things are." "Education is the key to these goals."

He is now over 60-years old, and living in Tibet, building schools for the Tibetan children to learn the Tibetan culture and language with the help of the Chinese government. At last count that I'd read in a news article, he's built 46 elementary schools in Namling, a county of 70,000 where he had been born. I have nothing but awe and respect for this man.

I highly recommend everyone who is interested in the Tibetan issue to buy and read this autobiography.

The Tibetan Movement propaganda claims that 1.2 million Tibetans were killed by "the Chinese". The reality is, not only did they exaggerate the number of deaths - a study on the Tibetan population showed the exaggeration; the violence had happened during the Cultural Revolution. Furthermore, Tibetans had participated actively during the CR.

What had happened in China was a class struggle. Millions of peasants chose communism to revolt against the landlords. This revolution was across China. Ethnic cleansing was never its purpose.

家园 针针见血,声情并茂!
家园 2-5朵已经送出,说到做到!
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