主题：【呼吁】请关注一下《南京梦魇》的困境 -- OldBadBug

国内的这类东西政府管得貌似很厉害

你们的行动值得赞扬和学习，我这就去了。

看到MIT开吵, 就绕道而行, 看了你的贴子才知道, 希望没有晚.

上班时候用visa捐的, 不知道年底报税能不能用上, 呵呵.

不知道dvd能不能送到社区图书馆去。

前两年，不是2005，就是2006的时候，他在三藩某处公映此片，俺把票赠给老美同事了，俺的同事还带了一个朋友同去，回来反映教育效果不错，只是片尾的蘑菇云略微有些不仁慈。

俺说，那个可是你们美国人干的。

以教育淳朴的本地民众.

因为我发的首贴，所以负责进一步跟进说明一些情况。

1.Joseph与丁元的冲突

以前听说过丁元，因为史维会搞的慰安妇提案。 那件事情上，史维会的所作所为是值得称道的。Joseph与丁元闹起来的原因不详。按那份公开信提到的两人矛盾，感觉主要是经济上的。

在MITBBS上，有人贴丁元的回应，贴下面了。另外一个版本列有更多的email来往，一下没找到，可能因为牵扯到其他人，又未经许可，版主把那些贴删了。回忆一下，email来往中的主要争论就是钱。印象有一次试映会后，Joseph听说捐款达25000，而组织者说才1200多，结果吵起来。和Joseph通信的是某报的女士。史维会和丁元怎么搀和进来的，就没印象了。

对这个，中文制片吴海燕回应如下：

另外我补充一点。一是“吴海燕与Rhawn Joseph 是夫妇”的问题。这个问题很隐私，本不应该说长道短，但因为丁元公回信的原因，我还是补充下面信息。 在Joseph网站上 http://brainmind.com/publications.html ，原话如下：Dr. Joseph has never been married and has no children. "On rare occasions, I have been asked about my sexual orientation. What's my orientation to sex? I am in favor of it." 二是关于捐款经费的管理，吴海燕回答如下：

2.Joseph与南京大屠杀纪念馆的冲突

这个今天在MITBBS上被几个人热炒。因为与论坛无关，所以很犹豫是否转过来。看了朱馆长的回复后，决定还是让大家尽可能全面了解一些情况。先给出Joseph在公开信中对纪念馆的攻击：

朱馆长的回复如下。因为论坛对转贴限制，请各位访问以下连接：

对乔瑟夫先生公开信的公开答复（一） http://www.nj1937.org/rss_show_news.asp?id=1520

对乔瑟夫先生公开信的公开答复（二） http://www.nj1937.org/rss_show_news.asp?id=1521

对乔瑟夫先生公开信的公开答复（三） http://www.nj1937.org/rss_show_news.asp?id=1522

朱馆长的回复针对Joseph的那封公开信。信中一些言论显然过激。 比如指责我们对John Rabe等英雄的漠不关心。 前几天在MITBBS碰到吴海燕时，我给她回了如下的话:"我理解Joseph写这封信时的心情，也理解这是激愤之下的言论。只是这种公开信中不宜有过于emotional的言论。提醒您一下，按Iris Chang的记述，Rabe因为nazi身份战后穷困潦倒时，国人曾经为他募捐。考虑到当时德国物质的匮乏，特意购买食物赠送给Rabe，表达对他所作所为的感谢。即使他去世后，也继续接济过其遗孀。后来因为国共政府的变换才中断。用这件事情只是想说不要因为少数人的行为而给中国人贴个“忘恩负义”的标签。也请Joseph言语上不要过于emotional。" 另外也提醒她，公开信不应该牵扯个人纠纷。不过信已经满世界发了，想来已经覆水难收了。

3.Joseph影片的质量

这个是我一直犹豫。很坦率说，并不是很高质量。 一个是缺乏一手资料，如对幸存者的采访。很多镜头是对已经公开的文档和影片(不少来自Why We Fight: The Battle of China)的重新编辑。对我们而言，不少镜头已经非常熟悉。二是存在一些史实上的偏差。比如提到了《田中奏折》，而史学界现在对其是否存在基本上持否定态度。如果说这还是属于有争论，有些是硬伤。比如把重庆大轰炸后的惨景搬到南京了。还有其他的我就不说了，不给一些专门找茬的提供子弹。

因为这个原因，我在MITBBS看到后曾犹豫是否在cchere推荐。自己捐款可以凭自己心了，但如果呼吁大家，则不得不三思。最后决定还是做。说一下自己的想法。

首先一个，支持为我们说话的。贴一个年初的旧闻：

Japanese director announces production of Nanjing film to deny massacre http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/01/24/asia/AS-GEN-Japan-Nanjing-Film.php 。Mizushima的“The Truth about Nanking”就是要向世界宣传“the killing are nothing more than Chinese propaganda.” 为这部电影，他的计划是 “to raise about 300 million yen (US$2.47 million; €1.89 million) for the effort.”不知道他的电影进展如何，只是想，鬼子卯足劲干这颠倒黑白的勾当，一年两年没效果，十年八年也可能没用，但时间再长点，等南京的幸存者都逐渐逝去，我们的记忆越来越模糊的时候，还敢保证鬼子的胡诌没用？我们铭记那段历史，但世界呢？ 当年选一门写作课时，花了一周时间，捉虫似地把Rabe的故事干巴巴写出来交上去。等拿回来，老美老师有洋洋洒洒一段批语，对那段历史震惊又对其中一些数字流露出怀疑。当即买了本Iris Chang的书送过去。后来把这事讲给人听，不少说，南京大屠杀能不都知道？ 可问题是，老外中的确没多少人知道那段历史！ 比起鬼子颠倒黑白地乱嚷，我们更多是沉默，可怕的沉默。 所以有声音为我们说话，我选择支持！

其次就是所谓“值不值得”支持。 MITBBS上有挺会“说话”的，说Joseph电影中错误多，容易抓辫子，让日本人利用，所以不值得支持。其实这是我犹豫的主要原因。影片的确存在不少不足，很多错误属于源远流长。比如前面提的《田中奏折》。《The Battle of China》里提了，Joseph电影里的镜头就来自那儿，属于跟着错，不够专业，不够严谨。还有一些错估计是和他手头资料有限有关。 毕竟 Joseph不是历史专业出身，不是中国人不懂中文，日本方面的资料估计他更少，有疏漏可以理解。电影现在是第一版。如果能存在下去，希望以后的第二版，第三版会改进。另外，很个人的观点，有小错也没啥。鬼子会制造舆论，会四处乱嚷，咱也要会嚷。不仅要嚷，还要大声嚷。嚷一百句错十句也没关系，只要嚷出来了，大家听懂的内容自然是那对的九十句为多。只要片子没有歪曲日本侵华历史，没有淡化南京大屠杀，象“重庆大轰炸的镜头搬到南京”的那种错又怎么样呢？！鬼子喜欢抓鸡毛蒜皮的错，正好用来当作宣传。重庆大轰炸后的惨景是不该用在南京，但只要承认是你日本人干的，不管是重庆还是南京，这帐都记在你鬼子头上！所以只要主流是对了，只要没有歪曲那段历史，我就选择支持！

最后说钱。MITBBS上有精英这么揣度的：打得爱国牌，搞点图片，拼个片子，就骗中国人钱了。不管别人怎么看，在我看来，想要马儿跑，就得给马吃草。别拿雷锋的标准去苛求别人。他们要靠电影赚钱图生活很正常。电影摆那里，是为我们说话的。我们也需要借他们的努力来发声，所以我心甘情愿被他“骗”钱。说真的，希望他们能赚钱，希望能用赚钱的商机在这个利大于义的时代吸引更多眼球来关注那段历史。如果商业利益能吸引更多的人员和投入来宣传、研究南京大屠杀，能吸引更多的人关注这段历史，又有何不可呢？年底《南京》会在美国上映，我会去看，DVD也会买，会用自己的方式支持它。陆川的《南京！南京！》如果登陆，一样支持。我愿意被他们赚钱，愿意支持为咱中国说话，为那段历史说话的。

发贴的时候还是有犹豫的，所以写了下面这些话：“对Dr. Joseph的电影，您可能有不同的看法和评价。但无论如何，他的出发点是好的。”“很坦率地说，影片不完美，质量远不如一些大投入商业片精良。我个人也对其中一些内容的准确性持保留态度。” 但捐款没啥犹豫的。捐款是为那部电影。因为它的确有用，让我身边一些老外知道了南京大屠杀。至于Joseph和吴海燕是不是夫妇那样的隐私，至于他们和丁元还有纪念馆有什么样的冲突，至于上纲上线到动机人品如何等，都不是我关心的。捐款就是为让那部电影生存，让为我们说话的声音能留着，就是想做点事情，算对70年前惨死南京同胞的祭奠。就这么简单。

写了这么多对这个事情的了解，丁元，纪念馆，Joseph和吴海燕等的观点都摆在那儿请读者自己判断了。现在事情在MITBBS吵的热闹，也不知道最后收场会如何。 希望我的原帖没有误导。

就此停笔!

• 【原创】短评：中国人民欠约瑟夫博士一个人情。
• 老实说，的确有些偏激

我知道网站不欢迎全文转载。但因为mitbbs删贴合贴频繁，为方便还是从mitbbs把全文转过来了。请版主手下留情，让这个留两天。按他的话，And I am asking, please, No More Donations.。不知道说什么好。

http://mitbbs.com/article_t/ebiz/25014268.html

===============================

The Chinese 1000 has saved the film "Nightmare in Nanking-Rape of Nanking". My deepest appreciation.

I gave this film away free to the world. Anyone can view it, at no charge, at video.google, youtube.com, Baidu.com and numerous websites. Over 4 million people have viewed or downloaded this film, It is ranked #9 "Most Discussed Films of All Time" at Youtube.

People watch this movie and they cry.

However, as we can see on this forum, my reward for making this movie and for giving it away free, is to be attacked. This has been going on for 2 years. I am attacked, and Ms.Joy Haiyan Wu who volunteered to work on the Chinese Version is attacked, we have been insulted, threatened, and donations stolen.

Why did I make this movie? Because I am a scholar and an artist. I wanted to create a work of art, where art meets scholarship. I wanted to tell a tragic story that was not wellknown in the west.

I first became interested in WWII as a child. I read hundreds of books on the subject because I wanted to understand how this great evil had almost taken over the world.

About 25 years ago I read a single paragraph about the Rape of Nanking. I began collecting information, photographs, thinking someday I would write a book. But then Iris Chang published her book and I decided I would do a movie instead.

As the Chinese people have now learned, a group of Chinese, led by Ignatius Ding of the Global Alliance solicited donations at the first showing of my film, and they kept the money. All of you now this is a fact.

When I contacted the Nanjing Holocaust Museum, I offered them my film, free of charge. I offered to give them the rights to this movie. Instead, they responded with insults,and Ms. Wu and I felt terribly insulted by their actions. As all of you now know, this is a fact.

In May-June of 2005, I sent a VHS copy of my film to top executive at Google, Yahoo, and AOL, including Ted Leonsis. I was trying to raise funds to pay licensing and other fees.

In July of 2005, the Chinese Consulate in San Francisco called me at home and told me that a rich American business man had seen my movie and wanted to provide me with all the necessary funds. However, this business man wanted to see my resume and to get any information about me that was not on my website.

I thought this was a bizarre request. Why my resume? And why was the Chinese consulate acting as a servant for an American businessman? I sent my resume and never heard back. Instead, I heard that a rich American business man, Ted Leonsis was now going to make a film about Nanking.

Now you should ask yourself this: Ted Leonsis is not Steven Spielberg. He has never made a movie in his life. And yet, all doors opened for Mr. Leonsis. and Chinese officials did everything they could to help him make a movie about an extremely sensitive subject. All lights turned green for this American billionaire However, for me, all doors were closed.

However, not only was I having problems, but a famous Chinese director Mr. Lu also met with opposition and his film project on Nanking ("Nanking Nanking") was rejected by the Chinese government at the same time all doors were opened for a billionaire business man from America who had never made a movie in his life.

For me, all doors have remained closed.

For me, everything about this film has been a miserable experience. I wasted years of my life, I lost money, I am attacked constantly by Japanese and Chinese. I truly wish I never, never made this movie.

When I wrote my letter "washing my hands" of this film, I truly meant my words. I did not discuss this first with Ms. Wu, though she was well aware of how unhappy and miserable I had become because of this film and all the problems.

When I wrote my letter "washing my hands," I expected to be attacked. However, I did not expect the Chinese people to come to the rescue. I didn't expect to have Chinese call me at home and beg me not to take down this film. I didn't expect to have hundreds of Chinese wrote me to tell me how much they loved this film.

When the donations started coming in, I was surprised. I was impressed. However, I was not happy. I wanted to bring this to an end. I no longer wanted to be involved in this. I wanted out.

So, nearly 1000 Chinese have donated. We have received over $38,000.00 in the US, and about $3,000 in China. I am humbled and honored. However, these donated funds will never compensate me for the attacks and misery I have experienced.

I want nothing more to do with this. Truly, I am sick of it. I didn't ask anyone to send money. I quit. I wanted out. I wanted to have nothing to do with this film.

Unfortunately, I cannot escape this film. Now I have an obligation to the Chinese 1000 who stepped forward.

This is what I am going to do:

1). The English and Mandarin editions of this film will stay online and available to the world for free. I promise to continue paying all licensing fees and paying for the renewal of all licensing fees.

2). We give permission to anyone to make DVDs of this film which they can give away free.

3) We give this film away for FREE To any TV station, anywhere in the world, who wish to show this film, in its entirety without commercial break. However, remember, we do not own the copyright to the music.

4) We give this film away for FREE to every theater, and every group in the world, who wish to show this film for free

5) I do hereby give this film away, FREE to the world.

And now that it is free, I am free of it. I have nothing further to say.

And I am asking, please, No More Donations.

Joseph 再三强调的是 art，而大屠杀纪念馆展出的只能是准确的历史。我想这也是国内媒体不对他开放的原因吧。这个结果让人.......

谢谢提供这么多的信息！一直没有搞清楚joseph为什么和南京大屠杀纪念馆怎么产生了矛盾。

捐了25刀，表示一点心意吧。

已经收到博士寄来的dvd了，不过好像是中文版的，我倒希望收到英文版的，方便对身边的老美进行教育。

前些时候的募捐活动也吸引了国内媒体的注意力。《南方周末》报道了，连接如下。总的说，这个调查写的很中立的，对Joseph与丁元，大屠杀纪念馆的冲突也解释了一下。 全文连接如下: http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2007-08-30/102413777896.shtml

可他不知道，在中国要想做点事情，真的很难。要么你就得当圣人，要么就啥也别干

感觉他在和人打交道上，特别是和中国人打交道上，太没方法了。可能是文化背景的差异，但觉得应该和他的性格也有关。感觉他很符合Grove的名言：Only the paranoid survive！ 本来和纪念馆之间的矛盾互相解释，沟通一下就可以的缓和的。而最后却是语言激烈，越闹越大。那封公开信更是例子。语言非常情绪化。如果行文理智点，缓和点，可能效果更好。

很认同你说的在中国做事情难。不管多拼命地干，总有背后磕瓜子说风凉话，甚至暗中下绊子的。即使完美圣人，也少不了泼脏水的。以前看柏杨的《丑陋的中国人》时觉得太cynical，经历多了才发现人性有时远比他笔下的描写更丑陋。这也算是我们文化的一部分吧。