主题：【原创】开罗清场之后 -- 晨枫
家园 纽约时报读者评论 ParagAdalja
New Canaan, Conn.
Emotions, when it comes to things such as this, does not work for me. So all those here bemoaning the number dead, well it is what it is.
When the dictator Mubarak unleashed his thugs on Tahir Square, it was that the populace was fighting for democracy. For good governance. We were even led to believe it was an Arab Spring. Mubarak had to go for a liberal democratic Egypt to flourish, we were assured. A new democratic Egypt was just around the corner.
Contrast that with the present set of protestors. What is their aim, their want? To rule over all of Egypt, to mistreat minorities, to appoint civilian murdering terrorists as governors, to mistreat women, ... the list is endless. Missing from the list, a liberal democratic governing structure.
Closest comparison, not at all unfair, would be Hitler and Germany 1933. Winning a majority of votes, Hitler was invited to form the government. Hitler and his Nazi party did not much disguise their agenda. And it would be a different world today if Hitler had been removed, similarly early on.
Consider this : Under Morsi's MB the past fifteen months, Alexandria banished Christians and Shias and Jews and other minority citizens. They were asked to leave and most left. Some converted.
So when you moan about 300 dead or 3000 dead, it is necessary to ask what did they die for. Were they fighting for a liberal democracy? or for a right to practice their religion? or for a right to impose their religious beliefs on all?
家园 不厚道的想到某人了 期待看她接下来的转进方向。
家园 奥巴马严厉谴责埃及政府并加以制裁 制裁的措施是神马哪？
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停止和埃及的联合军演
家园 奥巴马到底埋了多少银子啊 总玩此地无银三百两的游戏
取消访俄，奥总统来了一句——跟斯诺登无关
埃及这么大的乱子，奥总统宣布的制裁措施仅仅是取消军演，可人家又加了一句——美国不支持任何一方
不愧是炸药奖获得者啊
家园 民主适合微调、小调利益格局，大的不均衡要由革命来调整。 革命时期的民主和平静时期的民主的表现方式不一样。
家园 因为"政治正确"是外来者对埃及的判断 埃及军队piapia了穆尔西，犯了一个错误。他原本想做最后的仲裁者的角色，但是介入具体事务后就沾了泥巴甩不干净手。然后又不得不piapia这么多人，又往实际事务越陷越深。把自己沾满了泥巴，变成众矢之的。
接下去更头疼的问题是，谁掌权呢？政策谁制定呢？如果再有一个错误的政策，是不是还得动手再赶下台？
埃及军队能把所有事情做对么？不能。那为什么不能允许人民犯错自行纠正呢？
这种事情还是转型国家的常见情况。当年苏联军队把叶利钦赶下台就能挽救苏联么？显而易见不能，搞死叶利钦解决不了苏联的问题。埃及也是如此
我不觉得穆尔西就是民粹，埃及军队就是政治正确。关键的错误在于，你我是中国人，不是埃及人。理解不了别人就不要去用自己的立场去理解。
家园 Historicially Egypt was always susceptible to foreign influence, largely due to its unique geographic location--90% of its population concentrates on a narrow strip of land near Nile. Today it is as vulnerable as it has been for thousands of years. Foreign powers dictates what is going to happen in this hopeless country, which has unparalelled geo-political importance.
Less than one Month ago, Putin openly commented that Egypt was at brink of a civil war. Such comment, of course, was based on Russian intelligence in Mid-East region.
If Russia knew the risks of civil war, the U.S. obvious knew it better. That the massacre happened a few days after Sen. McCain's departure from Cairo is probably no coicidence. I doubt whether what is happening in Egypt is part of a deliberate plan to interupt Sino-Europe trade, so that North America will regain its central position in global trade in the long-run. Think about the historical fact that the discovery of America was the by-product of the severance of Sino-Europe trade after the collapes of the Mogolian Empire.
家园 跑题一下：我认为普京的目标是沙特 近年俄国在中东事务上表现出积极甚至激进的态度，保护叙利亚这个立足点是目标之一，更重要的或许是借此机会重新开始对中东的争夺。国际市场油价多年居高，俄国获利甚丰。与此同时，俄国经济对油价波动相当敏感，内外金主均不愿做长线投资。从莫斯科的角度看来，俄国发展需要的资金可能长期依靠资源出口，那么目前最重要石油出口国沙特即是其复兴道路上的障碍，因为沙特在相当程度上把持了国际石油贸易的定价权。正如俄国当年必须从瑞典手里夺取一个向波罗的海的出海口，必须与奥托曼帝国争夺黑海和进出地中海自由，今天的俄国很可能挟核大国之利，逼沙特“禅位”，由俄国来主导国际油价和生产配额。这个雄心壮志，沙特亲王是不可能靠大笔收购俄制武器的办法来满足的。
张高丽上次访俄，据称一次存下几百亿现金，同时许诺二十五年两千七百个亿的油钱。如果不是给普京战略的鼓噪，至少是默许。
通宝推：xiaobailong,家园 搞倒沙特毛子当然愿意啦 但是这个难度不小啊，普京也是有雄心壮志，缺乏实际手段吧。
家园 埃及让人想起了吴庭艳 吴庭艳也是美国判断一定要下台的 - 他的人民恨死他了，他的将军恨死他了，他的敌人当然也恨死他了。美国人默许把他搞下了台，却没想到一个将军比一个将军废柴。
家园 公知们选择性失明了
