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主题:观察:Google事件背后是怎样的博弈? -- SkyWalkerJ

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      • 家园 这种攻击,google的指责完全没谱

        我干这行的,基本上红黑分的不是那么清楚,地上地下都有产业。

        而且,攻击时都会采取使用多级代理等模式,全面防护,阻止有人发现攻击的起始点。

        另外,国安对轮子、疆独之类的攻击尝试,也不是一天两天了,我操这事肯定的追述到八年前了,现在说被攻击,扯淡。

        另外 轮子的邮件服务器的安全就是CIA做的,美国他说个p。

      • 家园 好像是微软的IE里面有一个安全漏洞

        可以专门用来打破谷歌的安全防守。呵呵。

      • 家园 估计google没说但想说的是

        攻入gmail帐号与中国区的研发网联网google内部网有关。这里的知识产权大概不在于源码被盗这层意思,而是指的有人通过中国区与google内部网的联网了解了如何攻入gmail的关键。换句话说,就是google中国有内鬼,而且是与这次gmail帐号被攻击有联系的。

        详情与证据当然只有google自己清楚了。至于寻找攻击来源从台湾找到大陆境内这并不是难事,许多黑客对攻报导中都说过,但是分析是大陆zf后台似乎google也只是猜测,只是从规模上,或者那个从google内部网取得关键信息的跨组织运作上,来判断这后面有中国zf的参与。比如这次攻入的是藏独的gmail,也许以前有过类似尝试没有成功但留下痕迹被查出与中国zf有关等,类似的情报分析都可以帮助确定暗中的对手。毕竟对藏独感兴趣与其他类型的商业犯罪攻击有明显的区分。

        但是这样的猜测甚至有90%的把握也终归是不可能与有确凿证据可比的,因此google话说的含糊可能是这个原因。虽然做为商业纠纷通过法律途径解决证据不够,但做为政治纠纷的武器却是可以的。

        • 家园 从攻击效果看是一次很成功的失败攻击

          有特定的攻击对象,比较合适的时间(CNMD实验左右),缺少实质性成果,还留下相当的证据,足够GOOGLE用来指定一个攻击者。甚至还有阴谋论版本遥相呼应。其实到目前为止,大家都不知道究竟是谁攻击GOOGLE,哪些人被攻击了,只知道有部分脏读/人权分子的GMAIL信箱被攻击。真实的信息也许永远都不会公布出来。

      • 家园 呵呵,你承认自己是外行,就不要瞎推测这么多了。

        你说的基本不着边际。

    • 家园 老大決定單挑老三

      這回是老二歐洲得利了

      100% agree with your post. Next 10 years will be interesting.

      • 家园 我觉得中美是貌离神合

        斗争总是有的,总是越来越激烈的

        但是斗而不破,斗中有合作,最后就斗到一家哥俩好了

    • 家园 新冷战的开端

      2009 is deja vu of 1929 and America will resort to the same tactic again.

      1929's worldwide problem is overcapacity (relatively insufficient effective demand). America destroyed some of its own overcapacity through 1929-1931 recession and outside world destroyed almost all of their capacity through WWII.

      American came into today's social structure(a big middle class as the pilar of a civilized society) due to various macro factors: global demand for American manufactured goods, SHUTOFF OF GLOBAL immigration and international trade, global trade war. At the same time, it had the right person (a left-lean aristcratic FDR with superior political skills) as the president.

      First, there was no international product competition in US market to squeeze the margin/price.

      Second, there was EXTREME shortgage of labor after 1939.Union was not allowed until 1932.

      Then easily US labor rate shoot above the roof and American living standards climbed quickly--capitalists were NOT unhappy at all because there was global war demand for their manufactured goods WITH NO PRICING PRESSURE and they had no choice but to employ ONLY American labor (that's why African Americans moved from impoverished south into industrialized North and many women FOR THE FIRST TIME IN US HISTORY, massively participated in the economy).

      Check this out-- http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayCover.cfm?url=/images/20100102/20100102issuecovUS400.jpg

      that's how US came into a society dominated by the mid-class. America reached an ideal social structure MOSTLY THROUGH SELF-REFORM AND PURE LUCK.

      That favorable social structure was maintained until late 1990s since the cold war kept away the flood of super-cheap labor supply from former communist block (China included).

      The free international trade, a GDP-obsessed Chinese export economy led to explosive growth in global production capacity (go to Walmart/dollar store to see the power of this revolution), but there is no catch-up in terms of effective demand from China (even the limited demand was wasted on real estate SPECULATION).

      China HAS BEEN SQUEEZING MARKET SHARE FROM BOTH DEVELOPED WORLD AS WELL AS SOME OF ITS DEVELOPING NATION COMPETITORS BETWEEN 2001-2007.

      Below is the faked conversation between G-2:

      America: we thoughT free-trade/free-capital movement will allow America to easily rip off others. But now you, China, looks like a cancer in this America-led Global Operating System(Trade&Financial System): you siphon off jobs, but did not create effective demands for all of us to create new domestic jobs. You must increase your exchange rate to reduce your product competitiveness and stimulate your domestic demand for ALL OF US so that we can export to your market(US and Europe).

      Anyway, currency appreciation happened for Germany/France/UK/Japan for 1970s and Taiwan/Korea in 1980s. Why cann't you do it so that the USD-TreasuryNote-Brettonwoods system can get a SECOND SYSTEM Update (just like the Windows XP SP2 update and the Matrix update in Matrix III) to avoid a system disruption (of American dominance)?

      China: I have another wave of young men forthcoming into the labor force. I do not care about ANY WELFARE of my compatriots or your voters. I need more new jobs to diffuse social intension and potential turmoil. ANYWAY, KEEPING POWER/CONTROL is what I care. As to the dirty cheap labor rate/lack of labor protection/environmental disaster and social welfare in CN, forget about THEM. Improvment Will NOT happen for the next 10 years. BTW, your capitalists love that in China with more money flooding in...why shall I change?

      If I allow RMB to appreciate, I am sure to be Japan V2 given my deeply flawed financial system... I am NO idiot! ^-^

      How about I keep on lending you billions (buying treasury bills) and you shut up your f* mouth.

      America: okay okay, can we have a G2 cooperation to defeat the European global-warming attack?~

      China: sure, we have deal. Business is business.

      One month later, Christmas is over. White House got another bleak update.

      America: F*ck, unemployment is so high and jobs are so scarce. Chinese refuse to increase exchange rate(create more import demand and reduce supply) or make domestic changes to unleash consumer demands. The only thing they want is to dump unemployment to the overseas market.

      Our companies are squeezed on profit margin thus have more domestic layoff pressure, while at the same time undercut in labor costs by ShanZhai production capacity.

      Hilary: we should cut off the trade/capital flow/job flow to China by disrupting the current free trade system. NOW it is the only solution given that technology revolution WILL NOT HAPPEN TO CREATE EFFECTIVE DEMAND IN YOUR 4-YEAR TERM. Chinese demand will be a joke for the next 10 years. BTw, mid-year congress election is coming, democrats will lose house if job situation keeps on deteriorating...

      Keep in mind: the rule about the war on job/trade is that... it is NOT about the war on job. It is about political integrity, principle and the war on "freedom of CHINESE PEOPLE's speech", even though it is the voters in AMERICA that truly determine my political prospect.

      Obama: ya, 無毒不丈夫、老子天生就是玩陰的料, it is Democrats' tradition, isn't it, darling... Anyway, Cooperhagen is dead...hahaha.

      Then Taiwan suddenly got the post-Christmas "gift" and Google finally could do what it wants in the past.

      China: %$#&^% f**&&^%

      Start of the new cold war. Switch from peaceful WinXP operating system to the war-obsessed unstable/unpredictable Linux system...

      In sum: -ism is fake, vote is the key. Principle is a joke, but economy is the reason... Friend is not permanent and adversary is not perpetual, only vote and interests are permanent and perpetual.

      • 家园 牛!
      • 家园 非常好的评论

        不管内容是不是深刻,至少这个英文非常的地道了,花一朵

      • 家园 "it's the economy, stupid"

        bill's voice came from outside the bedroom.

      • 家园 难得的好文章啊,

        难得的好文章,用英语都写得这么透彻,换一般的在美国的中国人根本达不到这个水平。做brookings的评论都可以了。

        说白了,google这个事,只是一个大时代的引子。纠缠于事情本身根本就没有必要,今后十年的趋势才是重要的。1929-1939 vs 2009-2019,that is the problem.

        • 家园 你们俩都说得不错,历史经验证明

          凡是紧跟真理部的,不但跟不上真理部的步子,更是落后于时局之后。这一点上可以说是超越了同人所说的读史三个境界之外的境界。

          花parishg的英文,至少可以说在老印面前不给海外老中丢人了。

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