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主题:【关注跟踪1】GOOG这事终于有点影了 -- pxpxpx

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  • 家园 【关注跟踪1】GOOG这事终于有点影了

    这几天云里雾里的,主要的疑问就是为什么GOOG没有在第一时间报案,以及有关攻击手段和后果的细节,今天NYTIMES的一篇文章终于揭开了大幕的一角。

    两边的大头到现在都没吱声,但是肯定也都没闲着...

    慢慢看吧,这事一时半会完不了。

    U.S. Treads Lightly in Wake of Google’s Loud Stance on China

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/world/asia/15diplo.html?hp

    SANTA CLARA, Calif. — Last month, when Google engineers at their sprawling campus in Silicon Valley began to suspect that Chinese intruders were breaking into private Gmail accounts, the company began a secret counteroffensive.

    It managed to gain access to a computer in Taiwan that it suspected of being the source of the attacks. Peering inside that machine, company engineers actually saw evidence of the aftermath of the attacks, not only at Google, but also at at least 33 other companies, including Adobe Systems, Northrop Grumman and Juniper Networks, according to a government consultant who has spoken with the investigators.

    Seeing the breadth of the problem, they alerted American intelligence and law enforcement officials and worked with them to assemble powerful evidence that the masterminds of the attacks were not in Taiwan, but on the Chinese mainland.

    But while much of the evidence, including the sophistication of the attacks, strongly suggested an operation run by Chinese government agencies, or at least approved by them, company engineers could not definitively prove their case. Today that uncertainty, along with concerns about confronting the Chinese without strong evidence, has frozen the Obama administration’s response to the intrusion, one of the biggest cyberattacks of its kind, and to some extent the response of other targets, including some of the most prominent American companies.

    President Obama, who has repeatedly warned of the country’s vulnerability to devastating cyberattacks, has said nothing in public about one of the biggest examples since he took office. And the White House, while repeating Mr. Obama’s calls for Internet freedom, has not publicly demanded a Chinese government investigation. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who had been the most senior U.S. official to talk of the seriousness of the breach, discussed it on Thursday with a Chinese diplomat in Washington, however, and a senior administration official said there would be a “démarche in coming days” — a diplomatic move.

    On Thursday, China’s Foreign Ministry deflected questions about Google’s charges and dismissed its declaration that it would no longer “self-censor” searches conducted on google.cn, its Chinese search engine. A ministry spokeswoman said simply that online services in China must be conducted “in accordance with the law.”

    In interviews in which they disclosed new details of their efforts to solve the mystery, Google engineers said they doubted that a nongovernmental actor could pull off something this broad and well organized, but they conceded that even their counterintelligence operation, taking over the Taiwan server, could not provide the kind of airtight evidence needed to prove the case.

    The murkiness of the attacks is no surprise. For years the National Security Agency and other arms of the United States government have struggled with the question of “attribution” of an attack; what makes cyberwar so unlike conventional war is that it is often impossible, even in retrospect, to find where the attack began, or who was responsible.

    The questions surrounding the Google attacks have companies doing business in China scrambling to confirm that they were victims. Symantec, Adobe and Juniper Networks acknowledged in interviews that they were investigating whether they had been attacked. Northrop and Yahoo, also described as subjects of the attacks, declined to comment.

    Besides being unable to firmly establish the source of the attacks, Google investigators have been unable to determine the goal: to gain commercial advantage; insert spyware; break into the Gmail accounts of Chinese dissidents and American experts on China who frequently exchange e-mail messages with administration officials; or all three. In fact, at least one prominent Washington research organization with close ties to administration officials was among those hacked, according to one person familiar with the episode.

    Even as the United States and companies doing business in China assess the impact, the attacks signal the arrival of a new kind of conflict between the world’s No. 1 economic superpower and the country that, by year’s end, will overtake Japan to become No. 2.

    It makes the tensions of the past, over China’s territorial claims or even the collision of an American spy plane and Chinese fighter pilots nine years ago, seem as outdated as a grainy film clip of Mao reviewing the May Day parade. But it also lays bare the degree to which China and the United States are engaged in daily cyberbattles, a covert war of offense and defense on which America is already spending billions of dollars a year.

    Computer experts who track the thousands of daily attacks on corporate and government computer sites report that the majority of sophisticated attacks seem to emanate from China. What they cannot say is whether the hackers are operating on behalf of the Chinese state or in a haven that the Chinese have encouraged.

    The latest episode illuminates the ambiguities.

    For example, the servers that carried out many of the attacks were based in Taiwan, though a Google executive said “it only took a few seconds to determine that the real origin was on the mainland.” And at Google’s headquarters in Mountain View, there is little doubt that Beijing was behind the attacks. Partly that is because while Mr. Obama was hailing a new era of cautious cooperation with China, Google was complaining of mounting confrontation, chiefly over Chinese pressure on it to make sure Chinese users could not directly link to the American-based “google.com” site, to evade much of the censorship the company had reluctantly imposed on its main Chinese portal, google.cn.

    “Everything we are learning is that in this case the Chinese government got caught with its hand in the cookie jar,” said James A. Lewis, a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, who consulted for the White House on cybersecurity last spring. “Would it hold up in court? No. But China is the only government in the world obsessed about Tibet, and that issue goes right to the heart of their vision of political survival and putting down the separatists’ movements.”

    Over the years, there have been private warnings issued to China, notably after an attack on the computer systems used by the office of the defense secretary two years ago. A senior military official said in December that that attack “raised a lot of alarm bells,” but the attacker could not be pinpointed. The administration cautioned Chinese officials that attacks seemingly aimed at the national security leadership would not be tolerated, according to one American who took part in delivering that message.

    • 家园 【关注跟踪7】一切也许才刚刚开始...

      今天下午,美国国会中国问题委员举行了一次听证会

      Google and Internet Control in China:

      A Nexus Between Human Rights and Trade?

      听证会的视频如下:

      http://www.cecc.gov/pages/hearings/2010/20100324/hearingwebcast20100324.php

      NYTIMES的报道如下:

      Google Calls for Action on Web Limit

      一切也许才刚刚开始...

    • 家园 娱乐一下,在google.com.hk输入“你妈逼”

      然后点 手气不错 看看会发生什么。。。

    • 家园 【关注跟踪6】GOOGLE香港能走多远?

      自从GOOG本周一声明将对谷歌(GOOGLE.CN)的访问转到GOOGLE香港之后,包括GOOG自己在内的很多方面都在关注大陆用户对GOOGLE香港的访问可以持续到什么时候。

      GOOG为此还专门做了一个网页,通过它,人们可以看到大陆用户可以对GOOG门下的哪些站点进行访问。GOOG目前每天都对这个网页进行更新。

      根据该网页上提供的信息来看,目前大陆的用户可以访问的站点如下:

      Web Search

      Images

      News

      Ads

      Gmail

      Mobile

      该网页地址如下

      http://www.google.com/prc/report.html#hl=en

    • 家园 【关注跟踪5】谷歌 -> GOOGLE香港

      从今天开始,所有对谷歌(GOOGLE.CN)的访问都会被转到GOOGLE香港。

      这是GOOG最新的决定。

      用GOOG官方BLOG上的话来说:

      We believe this new approach of providing uncensored search in simplified Chinese from Google.com.hk is a sensible solution to the challenges we've faced—it's entirely legal and will meaningfully increase access to information for people in China.

      至于谷歌的大陆员工以及相关业务,GOOG目前的计划是:

      In terms of Google's wider business operations, we intend to continue R&D work in China and also to maintain a sales presence there, though the size of the sales team will obviously be partially dependent on the ability of mainland Chinese users to access Google.com.hk.

      GOOG声明的全文如下:

      A new approach to China: an update

      3/22/2010 12:03:00 PM

      On January 12, we announced on this blog that Google and more than twenty other U.S. companies had been the victims of a sophisticated cyber attack originating from China, and that during our investigation into these attacks we had uncovered evidence to suggest that the Gmail accounts of dozens of human rights activists connected with China were being routinely accessed by third parties, most likely via phishing scams or malware placed on their computers. We also made clear that these attacks and the surveillance they uncovered—combined with attempts over the last year to further limit free speech on the web in China including the persistent blocking of websites such as Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Google Docs and Blogger—had led us to conclude that we could no longer continue censoring our results on Google.cn.

      So earlier today we stopped censoring our search services—Google Search, Google News, and Google Images—on Google.cn. Users visiting Google.cn are now being redirected to Google.com.hk, where we are offering uncensored search in simplified Chinese, specifically designed for users in mainland China and delivered via our servers in Hong Kong. Users in Hong Kong will continue to receive their existing uncensored, traditional Chinese service, also from Google.com.hk. Due to the increased load on our Hong Kong servers and the complicated nature of these changes, users may see some slowdown in service or find some products temporarily inaccessible as we switch everything over.

      Figuring out how to make good on our promise to stop censoring search on Google.cn has been hard. We want as many people in the world as possible to have access to our services, including users in mainland China, yet the Chinese government has been crystal clear throughout our discussions that self-censorship is a non-negotiable legal requirement. We believe this new approach of providing uncensored search in simplified Chinese from Google.com.hk is a sensible solution to the challenges we've faced—it's entirely legal and will meaningfully increase access to information for people in China. We very much hope that the Chinese government respects our decision, though we are well aware that it could at any time block access to our services. We will therefore be carefully monitoring access issues, and have created this new web page, which we will update regularly each day, so that everyone can see which Google services are available in China.

      In terms of Google's wider business operations, we intend to continue R&D work in China and also to maintain a sales presence there, though the size of the sales team will obviously be partially dependent on the ability of mainland Chinese users to access Google.com.hk. Finally, we would like to make clear that all these decisions have been driven and implemented by our executives in the United States, and that none of our employees in China can, or should, be held responsible for them. Despite all the uncertainty and difficulties they have faced since we made our announcement in January, they have continued to focus on serving our Chinese users and customers. We are immensely proud of them.

      Posted by David Drummond, SVP, Corporate Development and Chief Legal Officer

    • 家园 啃了半天英文发现一点干货没有.......

      有点怨恨楼主......

      • 家园 这事怨不得楼主啊

        说到底google这事本来是很简单的:

        google傲娇--tg不理--google换着法继续傲娇--tg还是不理

        然后就是我们这些打酱油的在猜测为啥google傲娇(民主自由乎,黑客户,市场失败乎,三者有之乎?),google该不该傲娇,tg为啥不理,该不该理一下……

    • 家园 a joke article

      this article basically is a joke. No any solid evidences at all.

      而且从一个正常的common sense, 中国政府或者国安用这么低级的方法从台湾的服务器搞入侵,是和可笑的事情。如果真有入侵发生,最大的可能也就是一般黑客或者竞争对手,一个政府完全会有更有效的方法。

    • 家园 【关注跟踪4】受到伤害的一群

      从GOOG事件在今年一月爆发以来,其中国国内广告代理商就一直保持沉默。直到今天,CCTV的一篇独家报道披露了这27家代理商给刘允的一封信,他们的声音才最终被大众所听到。

      从信里不难看出他们的焦虑,失望,甚至是愤怒。

      若干年后,当人们再次回顾这个事件的时候,这封信也许会被看成是一个转折点。

      下面是信的全文

      ----------------------------

      谷歌遭代理商逼宫 致刘允邮件独家曝光

      CCTV.com 2010年03月16日 10:57

      近日,有关谷歌退出中国的消息再度成为了网民关注的焦点。今天早间的媒体消息,谷歌在华广告客户已接到通知,谷歌可能在月底将关闭,google.cn广告会变更到google.com,一些剩余业务将被转移到中国香港继续服务。此前,谷歌管理层称已99.9%确定将退出中国互联网搜索引擎市场。

        对于谷歌是否退出中国市场,广大的网友都在关注,而对于谷歌的代理商们来说等待消息可以说是个煎熬。昨日晚间,谷歌某代理商给主管大中华区销售的谷歌全球副总裁刘允博士发了一封邮件,文中表达了谷歌在中国有27家代理商目前最迫切的愿望:给代理商合理的解决方案。以下是代理商发给刘允博士的邮件全文:

        尊敬的刘允博士:

        自从今年1月13日Google首席法务官在Google官方博客上宣布了Google有可能退出中国以来,各方传言不断。两个多月以来,即使在中国人传统佳节-----春节期间,我们每天都忐忑不安、焦虑万分。我们看着层出不穷的各种相关新闻,却无法预测未来;看着业务量直线下滑,却无能为力;看着员工一个个离去,却无法劝留。我们从Google得到的回答,以及我们所能做的事,就是两个字-----等待,在无比痛苦和不安的状态下等待。

        直到今天,我们再也无法等待下去了,无法再等了!

        因为我们面对与我们紧密合作的数以万计的客户,我们需要给他们最坏结果下的解决方案;我们面对与我们披星戴月、奋战多年的同事和伙伴,我们需要给他们最坏结果下的安置和补偿方案;我们面对投资给我们、却总是没有回报的投资人,我们需要给他们最坏结果下的回报和补偿方案。

        我们理解Google有自己的价值观,但我们不能理解的是,直至今天,Google与我们之间没有任何沟通和关于未来解决方案的谈判,尤其这牵涉到我们数以万计客户、员工、投资人的利益。

      此时此刻,如果Google告诉我们这是商业行为,我们的客户、员工、投资人都应该自己承担商业风险,我们以及客户、员工、投资人,所有人将绝对不能接受!

        我们要求Google立即与我们的代表进行沟通,并给予未来退出中国情况下对我们的客户、员工、投资人的解决方案,必须解决包括以下几点的所有问题。

        1、 我们在中国有数万的用户,他们都是采用预存款的方式获得Google的广告服务。如果Google将关闭google.cn并退出中国,那么所有这些客户已经存入Google账户的款项,Google公司会在多长时间之内,自行或经由代理商退还给客户?

        2、 Google在中国有27家代理商,我们的发展时间都在2到3年,时间不长。过去的几年,我们在Google的要求下,不断增加人员,不断扩大规模,不断进行业务投入。目前,全国上下已经积累数以万计的Google代理商员工,这些员工大多数只专注于Google业务。Google如果退出中国,那么,所有的相关员工如何补偿?如果这数以万计的员工对中国的经济政治社会造成任何不稳定,Google应当承担全部责任。

        3、 全国的27家Google代理商,目前对于Google的业务都尚处于投入期,还未得到合理的回报。Google如果退出中国,那么,我们大多将面临破产、倒闭,之前在Google的要求下,投入了巨大的资金和无比的艰辛,Google如何对于代理商进行补偿?

        由于您是Google全球副总裁,负责Google中国所有业务事宜,所以,我们特意写这封邮件给您,请您尽快给予我们回复。同时,请告知您准备接待我们进行沟通、谈判的时间和地点,我们将派代表前往。

        受这一事件的影响,我们几乎没有业绩,我们每一天都在亏损,我们需要您给予最快速的回复,以及谈判。

        请理解,我们无法等待更多时间,我们需要维护我们应有的利益,我们需要负责任的Google认真看待我们过去几年付出的血汗,尊重我们的客户、员工和投资人,对我们有一个合理的交代、合理的解决方案。否则,我们只能代表数以万计的客户、员工和投资人,寻求中国政府相关部门、媒体的进一步帮助。

        谢谢。

      Google全国代理商:

      品众互动广告(北京)有限公司

      北京紫博蓝科技发展有限公司

      天津互联在线广告传媒有限公司

      石家庄正日商务网络有限公司

      青岛爱搜广告有限公司

      济南搜索在线广告有限公司

      郑州易赛诺科技有限公司

      西安为华网络有限公司

      上海火速网络科技有限公司

      上海天擎信息技术有限公司

      苏州寰宇网络传媒有限公司

      杭州网通互联科技有限公司

      杭州国盛互联广告有限公司

      常州中网世纪信息技术有限公司

      扬州市鼎捷科技有限公司

      温州市中资富投科技有限公司

      南京网赢网络传媒有限公司

      宁波虎翼网络科技有限公司

      厦门亿资网络服务有限公司

      深圳时代赢客网络有限公司

      深圳天拓资讯科技有限公司

      广东天拓资讯科技有限公司

      成都盘古网络有限公司

      重庆智佳信息科技有限公司

      武汉龙腾时代网络技术有限公司

      中企动力科技集团股份有限公司

      厦门中资源网络服务有限公司

      • 家园 反反复复,真真假假,一团乱麻

        《泰晤士报》报道,

        知情人士透露Google考虑在中国保留部分业务,Google计划保留中国的北京研发中心、广告销售办事处以及手机与浏览器业务,一些谷歌网站服务可能也得以保留,包括中文音乐搜索业务以及Google Answers中文版。分析师称,Google.cn关闭对Google利润的即时影响有限,2009年谷歌中国的3亿美元收入大部分来自出口导向性企业,即使Google.cn关闭,这些客户仍需要继续在Google的海外站点投放广告。 另据《纽约时报》报道,谷歌27家广告代理商昨天联名致函谷歌的信件(WSJ中文网公布的全文,CCTV网站也公布了)可能是假的,其中一家署名的代理商的销售主管认为信件是假的。彭博社询问了22家署名的代理商,没有一家确认信函的真实性。前哈佛Berkman研究员毛向辉认为,这些独立代理商组成一个联盟的事实本身就显得难以置信。

      • 家园 Google也太黑了。没人性呀

        Google也太黑了。没人性呀

        那么多人就给它给抛弃了。

      • 家园 很庆幸我老娘没买google的广告

        用她的话说,感觉投了几k下去没啥效果....

      • 家园 喜欢看持续关注的东西 谢谢
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