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主题:【原创】即使没有文革,中国经济也不会提前进入第二世界 -- 葡萄

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          • 家园 大爷都60多了,想改朝换代也要从6岁开始锻炼啊

            鸦片战争开始到大爷出生这段时间,估计如果大爷能继续身体健康,在他选择的国内革命路线下,很快就能够体会了。

        • 家园 斗胆 说一下理解

          1、站在国内角度看国际问题,当外部的环境变化以致影响到了一个团体内部的生存和继续发展的程度的时候,团体内部会自发的产生“抗体” (以文革为例,就是超过50%的gdp投入与国防,这个国防泛指团体对外部环境的所有对抗)

          2、以二战时期的美国为类比, 当团体产生的这种“抗体”所造成(超过50%的gdp造成个体生活质量下降)的反作用力,必然导致团体内部个体的强烈抵制甚至是反抗。 所幸的是,技术(尤其在工业化社会以后)的不断进步,使团体对于内部的反抗有一定的承受能力并且不断加强,也使得个体的不满得以定量发泄。从而保证了团体总目标(生存并继续发展)得以实现。 当然当个体在发泄不满以及对团体内部构架的不断冲击随着时间的推移,在技术的不断进步,外界环境的缓和的情况下,个体在逐渐消亡并不断新生的情况下,逐渐接受了技术和环境的双重改变。

          3 站在技术的这个角度,来看文革的问题,不管文革在中国当时分为多少派多少牛鬼蛇神,之间发生过多少争斗,其实可以看做是个体发泄不满的另一个表现,一种对团体对抗外部环境变化的不满表现。

          而接受这个结论的根源在于你要承认文革中这个团体在生存方面和继续发展方面都因为它的改变(超过50%的pdp投入)而获得了足够多的基础和足够长的时间。

          很有意思的是,在文革中,没有个体或者个体组成的小团体公然反对这个大团体(曾经看到有人说,文革中对于毛对于党的绝对忠诚,而对于上级的质疑这个现象),葡萄也曾经说过,gcd的成长历程。 那么结合毛泽东的社会发展观点,斗胆的说,

          一旦外部环境变得使团体的生存和发展受到威胁,我们需要的是保持这个团体在现有的环境下,在物质保证一定长的时间下,不崩溃。对生产力有足够信心的前提下,团体开始整体转变以应对大环境的冲击,同时允许内部个体和小团体发泄不满并不断强化团体内部的构架来应对个体与个体之间小团体与小团体之间,甚至是个体和小团体对整个大团体的冲击,而如何强化内部构架,在目前的环境来看,构架的任务就是,有足够能力使不断发展的生产力有对应的生产关系来适应。

          回到现实来看,在现有核威胁没有技术制止的情况下,一旦发生战争(类似一战),结果可能是蟑螂和老鼠在几千年后在西西河讨论什么话题。 而 大国对小国的压迫或许不可避免,如果人们的不理性很容易。。。。。,所以未来的地区冲突或者小范围的战争,我们能做的仅仅是祈祷。

          葡萄的选择可以看做是杞人忧天或者跳大神或者任何想扣他头上的理由,

          而对于国内革命形式的支持者来说,经历过文革的中国,真的有必要再来一次么????

          但是如果真能避免战争(看起来像是个和平主义者),或者避免国内革命, 为何我们不去选择第三种形式呢???

          对于葡萄的准备,其实和平常人为自己生活的更好一些本质根本没有差别,只不过是在对于同一个目标的追求中,有人迷失了,这个人可能是你,可能是我,可能是葡萄。

           苏格拉底被处死前,朋友悲伤地说:“我亲爱的苏格拉底,我是多么不希望你被如此不公正的处死啊!”苏格拉底平静地说:“朋友,难道你希望看到我被公正的处死吗?”

        • 家园 附和你,最近卫报上关于毛主义全球影响的一篇文章

          我的不少印度朋友,是非常遗憾印度只有甘地这个所谓圣人, 却没有出毛泽东

          外链出处

          Today Maoism speaks to the world's poor more fluently than ever

          Aside from the bland icon of the new China, there is a much more dangerous Mao, whose ideas retain their vitality

          In 2008 in Beijing I met the Chinese novelist Yu Hua shortly after he had returned from Nepal, where revolutionaries inspired by Mao Zedong had overthrown a monarchy. A young Red Guard during the Cultural Revolution, Yu Hua, like many Chinese of his generation, has extremely complicated views on Mao. Still, he was astonished, he told me, to see Nepalese Maoists singing songs from his Maoist youth – sentiments he never expected to hear again in his lifetime.

          otto 20/07 Illustration by Otto

          In fact, the success of Nepalese Maoists is only one sign of the "return" of Mao. In central India armed groups proudly calling themselves Maoists control a broad swath of territory, fiercely resisting the Indian government's attempts to make the region's resource-rich forests safe for the mining operations that, according to a recent report in Foreign Policy magazine, "major global companies like Toyota and Coca-Cola" now rely on.

          And – as though not to be outdone by Mao's foreign admirers – some Chinese have begun to carefully deploy Mao's still deeply ambiguous memory in China. Texting Mao's sayings to mobile phones, broadcasting "Red" songs from state-owned radio and television, and sending college students to the countryside, Bo Xilai, the ambitious communist party chief of the southwestern municipality of Chongqing, is leading an unexpected Mao revival in China.

          It was the "return" of Marx, rather than of Mao, that was much heralded in academic and journalistic circles after the financial crisis of 2008. And it is true that Marxist theorists, rather than Marx himself, clearly anticipated the problems of excessive capital accumulation, and saw how eager and opportunistic investors cause wildly uneven development across regions and nations, enriching a few and impoverishing many others. But Mao's "Sinified" and practical Marxism, which includes a blueprint for armed rebellion, appears to speak more directly to many people in poor countries.

          It is tempting to denounce Mao as a monster, and to dismiss the Maoists of today as no less criminally deluded than Peru's Shining Path guerillas, or the Khmer Rouge. Certainly, the scale of the violence Mao inflicted on China dwarfs all other crimes and disasters committed during the course of nation-building in the last two centuries. But political and economic modernisers elsewhere also exacted a terrible human cost from their allegedly backward peoples. In the last century alone, millions died due to political conflict or hunger and were brutally dispossessed and culturally deracinated in a huge area of Asian territory, from Turkey and Iran to Indonesia and Taiwan.

          Every nation state whitewashes the abominations of its founders. The influence, however, of the earliest postcolonial nation-builders is severely limited today. Hardly anyone looks up Sukarno's Pancasila for political guidance, or derive inspiration, as Nasser and Jinnah once did, from Ataturk's republican nationalism. So denunciations of Mao don't go very far in explaining his enduring appeal inside and outside China.

          That said, there seems little mystery to the invocation of Mao by a new generation of Chinese leaders, who recently also tapped into Confucius as a source of ideological legitimacy. The recourse to Mao is an example of the expedient populism that insecure ruling classes resort to. As an icon of the new China, Mao seems as bland as the basketball player Yao Ming and the French Open tennis champion Li Na. But for many people outside China there is another, much more dangerous, Mao – and he isn't the rash instigator of the Great Leap Forward or the cynical perpetrator of the Cultural Revolution, either. For them, as Yu Hua writes in a forthcoming book, "what Mao did in China is not so important – what matters is that his ideas retain their vitality and, like seeds planted in receptive soil, 'strike root, flower, and bear fruit'."

          Mao set out these portable ideas well before his disastrous reign as quasi-emperor of China. Indeed, his diagnosis of, and proposed cure for, China's pre-revolutionary maladies in such tracts as "Report on an Investigation of the Peasant Movement in Hunan" (1927), "On Guerrilla Warfare" (1937) and "On Protracted War" (1938) were what gave him his decisive advantage over his many Chinese rivals.

          Early in his career he identified a nexus between feudal elites in the hinterland and capitalists in the semi-colonial coastal cities as the enemy, and then successfully mobilised a "people's" army to break it. Mao's theory and praxis was always likely to have greater appeal than classical, urban-oriented Marxism in many agrarian countries, where tiny elites held down, often with foreign assistance, a population consisting largely of peasants.

          Nearly half a century ago, nationalist groups in Vietnam and Cuba successfully realised Mao's strategy of encircling the cities from the countryside. Now it is economic globalisers, encircling the countryside from the cities, who provide a freshly receptive soil for Mao's theory and praxis. Far from being rendered irrelevant, they have become attractive again to many people who feel actively victimised rather than simply "left behind" by an expansionist capitalism.

          A case in point is the Maoist insurgency in the forests of central India, which feeds on the Indian government's ruthless drive to open up the region's great mineral reserves to private and multinational corporations. Indian Maoists mouthing Mao Zedong's rhetoric about local "compradors" and foreign imperialists may appear to be pathetic dead-enders to those who imagine everyone will at some point settle down to loving liberal democracy and the iPad. But the Maoists, though often corrupt and brutal, have found a large constituency among millions of indigenous peoples (Adivasis), for whom even the fragile security of a subsistence economy has been destroyed by the nexus between global corporations and their Indian enforcers.

          The Indian writer Shashank Kela points to a crucial fact about Indian Maoism and its Adivasi rank and file: "It is the circumstances of their lives rather than its ideology that push its followers into a desperate, last-ditch battle with the state in preference to dispossession." As Kela writes, "mining and heavy industry displaced Adivasi communities, destroyed their livelihoods, failed to give them jobs and cut them loose to join the swelling workforce of migrant labourers, a sea of impoverished, overworked human beings, reduced to accepting the worst-paid jobs in city and countryside".

          It is far from clear how the Maoist insurgency, and its attempted suppression by Indian paramilitaries, who have claimed more than 10,000 lives in the past decade, will end. After their overthrow of the monarchial state, Nepal's Maoists went on to participate in elections. Indian Maoists are unlikely to give up armed resistance any time soon.

          And the Indian state may find it impossible to suppress them militarily. That the benefits of economic globalisation will abruptly start flowing to its biggest victims is even less conceivable in the forests of central India than in the post-industrial cities of midwestern America. "There is not the slightest chance," Kela writes of the Maoist Adivasis, one of the peoples rendered superfluous by industrial capitalism, "that they will ever become a factory proletariat". A long and bloody stalemate beckons; and, while Maoism may be reduced to near-meaninglessness as state doctrine in China, it seems certain that many corners of the world are likely to remain Maoist for a very long time.

        • 家园 白瑞德葡萄
    • 家园 转:为什么很多人要怀念毛泽东时代?

      为什么很多人要怀念毛泽东时代?

        1. 从历史上看

         毛泽东时代是一个承前启后,承上启下的伟大的转折时代,他一头连着半殖民地半封建的官僚买办旧中国(对内,国家分裂,军阀割据,民不聊生,对外,列强入侵,割地赔款),一头连着改革开发,经济腾飞发展中华民族的伟大复兴时代。(对内,大陆统一,人民修养生息,对外,和平共处,平等互利,国际地位空前提升)

        2. 从政治上看

         从国内政治上看,毛泽东时代结束了中国半殖民地半封建的官僚买办时代,广大工农群众的地位得到空前得提高,人们怀着朴素的革命热情和理想,在一穷二白的基础上艰苦奋斗,共同走过了激情燃烧的岁月,其过程虽然曲折,有过争论,有过失误,但这都是探索真理中付出的代价。

         从国际政治上看,毛泽东时代是在美苏争霸全球大环境下,在美国强盛时期,先联苏抗美,后在苏联占上风时,后联美抗苏,并且始终带领和联合广大的第三世界的发展中国家追求独立自主和民族解放,避免了中国成某一超的附属,为今后中国的独立自主的和平发展打开了广阔的国际生存发展空间。

        3. 从经济上看

         从农业上看,毛泽东时代积极开荒垦田,兴修水利 加快引进和扩大化肥、农机等生产,提高以杂交水稻为代表农业科技,大大提高和发展了中国的农业,养活了超过十亿的人口。

         从工业上看,在毛泽东时代时,人民勒紧裤腰带,发扬艰苦奋斗的精神从无到有,从小到大建立起来中国完整、齐备的工业体系,包括轻工业,汽车工业,船舶工业,石油工业,机械工业,航空工业,航天工业,以两弹一星、核潜艇为代表的国防工业等等。

         从国防上看,从抗美援朝、对印边防战、抗苏珍宝岛战役、援越抗美到联美抗苏整个毛泽东时代维护了中国的国土完整,主权独立,提高了中国的国际地位,为中国的独立自主、和平发展打开了广阔的空间。

        4. 从文化上看

         毛泽东时代通过文化大革命彻底从思想和文化上颠覆了千年以来官僚、士大夫阶层高高在上、等级森严的封建思想和文化,破除封建思想和迷信,提倡自食其力,劳动最光荣,同时废除男尊女卑的习俗,解放了广大劳动妇女。

        5. 从科学教育上看

         毛泽东时代从根本上消除困扰中国千年的文盲,半文盲状态,建立起了完备、齐全的大学、科研院所,提高了人民的劳动素质。

        6. 从医疗卫生上看

         毛泽东时代从根本上消除了以血吸虫病为代表的寄生虫病和传染病,建立起了完备的城市、农村医疗卫生体系,大大的提高了中国人民的平均寿命。

        7. 从当今现实意义上看

          从发展的眼光看,毛泽东时代的种种牺牲,正是当今中华民族复兴,国家强盛,民众富足的基础。喝水不忘挖井人,怀念毛泽东时代,就是怀念挖井人,如果回到毛泽东时代的艰难困苦,那毛泽东时代的人们的奉献和牺牲就白费了,恰恰相反,怀念毛泽东时代,就是怀念毛泽东时代的精神和文化思想,为实现中华民族的复兴,为消除日益严重的两级分化,实现人们的共同富裕而奋斗。

        

         但是不得不指出的是当今官僚资本买办阶级的日益抬头,贪污腐败,黑恶势力日益猖獗,工农阶级的地位一落千丈,广大的中国人民被高房价、高物价,沉重的医疗、教育负担压的喘不过气来,抚今追昔,共和国的裂变、质变的声音已经清晰可闻,就更显示出怀念毛泽东时代的时代意义。

        

      • 家园 十分怀念毛主席

        中国的官僚主义和买办阶层现在越来越让人感到厌恶,迟早要将他们打倒的,所以我宁愿选择再次文革,重新唤醒人类的灵魂,尽管流血不可避免.

      • 家园 印度人口占世界的22%,文盲也占世界的46%

        del

        • 家园 很多人在鼓吹印度模式么

          这难道是上层,或者说是某些能够影响决策的精英们的意图,而且这种思路还很流行?阿三在国人的映像中向来是落后脏乱的,虽然他们有先进的一面,不过在我们眼里往往都是嗤之以鼻的,前段时间很火的《中国震撼》中里面也有大段篇幅来驳斥印度路径不符中国实际了,我觉得持这种观点的人应该是大数吧。

          • 家园 比如这个版面里,不少人鼓吹印度模式好

            del

            • 家园 这些人其实仅仅看到眼前寸光之厘

              大部分是被忽悠,有极少部分人是别有用心,还有一部分是私心作怪,他以为就凭他那几个小钱能混得出来,我要大笑三声了.中国如果印度化,则必然成为整个中国人的恶梦,其伤害远远大过文革百倍不止,而且不是10年的痛苦,极有可能是几百年的痛苦.葡萄兄不必过份看空,中国的农民工人阶级并不是愚顿,而是还对这个上层建筑存一份希望.

              • -- 系统屏蔽 --。
            • 家园 呷了金子呷银子,呷了银子呷金子。

              七十二家

              几家欢喜几家愁

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