主题：2022读书笔记之一 -- kmy1810
家园 2022读书笔记之一 偶然看到一个惺惺相惜，最终却还是错过的故事😜
书名 1937 延安对话 美国 托马斯亚瑟必森Bisson著 人民文学出版社2021 第一版
原著英文名Yenan in June 1937 Talks with the communist leaders 1973年加州大学伯克利分校出版
比森自1929年起在美国外交政策委员会中担任远东事务研究员，1937年6月与欧文拉铁摩尔等四人组成美亚小组，继斯诺后访问延安。
拉铁摩尔1972年在为该书写的序言中提到：”毛泽东曾竭尽全力，劝说给我们当司机的那个瑞典人机械师艾飞希尔，请他留在延安，负责修理和保管红军队伍中那批被国民党的炮火打得稀烂的卡车和吉普车。“
” 艾飞希尔的父母是瑞典路德派教会的来华传教士，他生长于内蒙古河套地区，通晓那里的方言，未曾接受过完整的教育，在中国西北部辗转流浪了许多个年头，曾为富商和军阀们驾车，为斯文赫定的探险队服务过，对中国边远地区社会底层的阴暗面，可说是了如指掌，无论是娼寮俗语，猜拳行令，民间小调，还是土匪黑话，他都能脱口道来。与此同时，他对这个社会也怀有不屑，有点种族主义者的味道。他曾这样说过：这是一个充满欺诈和玩弄不正当手段的世界，我很了解他们中国人的思维方式，但我是个与众不同的白种人，因此总能翻倍地赢过他们。我觉得把艾飞称作游民小资产者会比较恰当，他对政治的了解实际上乏善可陈…但他却声称，并不喜欢共产主义的理念，他肯定拥有一种根深蒂固的直觉，因此懂得，共产主义理想将会毁掉他那种天马行空放荡不羁的生活方式。“
”然而，颇为有趣的是，毛泽东主席对我们这几个美国人彬彬有礼，耐心有加。但与此同时，，他却使出了浑身解数，千方百计地试图劝说这个落魄潦倒的瑞典年轻人，请他在延安留下来。“
”这也可以理解，美国的知识分子并不值钱，然而，一个欧裔的汽车机械师，操着土里土气却堪称地道的乡下口音，不但能够把那些繁琐复杂的机器玩弄于股掌之间，还能教会你怎么对付这些玩意儿，你说他不是个宝贝，还能是什么？“
然而艾飞希尔最终拒绝了东哥，东哥这一生亲自挖角并且失败的经验不多吧，这算一次大失败了😁
然后故事到了神转折点：拉铁摩尔接着记录道：
”我很高兴也能在这本书中记录下艾飞希尔这位并不赞同共产主义的人所发出的真知灼见。
当我们离开延安，踏上归途之后，我曾经问他：现在，一切都已结束了，你觉得毛泽东这个人怎么样呢？
艾飞希尔回答说：我曾见识过各种各样的人，富商，军阀，知识分子，国民党高官，但毛泽东却是我见过的唯一一个能够统一全中国的人。“
通宝推：桥上,起于青萍之末,MaverickZ,尚儒,铁手,happyyuppie,棋人鲁大耍,大山猫,陈王奋起,一着,西安笨老虎,方平,审度,等明天,燕人,任爱杰,桥上,起于青萍之末,袁大头,不远攸高,南寒,家园 Effie Hill大名 Karl Ephraim Hill Effie Hill (Karl Ephraim Hill), son of a Swedish missionary family, a driver-mechanic, had travelled widely in Mongolia and northwest China, and spoke several of the languages of the area. It was he who helped Helen Snow get to Yenan in the spring of 1937.
Karl Ephraim Hill 应该是 Effie Hill 的全名
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Foreigners in Areas of China Under Communist Jurisdiction Before 1949
Biographical Notes and a Comprehensive Bibliography of the Yenan Hui
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Margaret Stanley with an introduction by Helen Foster Snow
edited by Daniel H. Bays
p18
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"The Yenan Hui" 应该是"延安会"，是这些去过延安的人的一个小圈子。
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The Yenan Hui is a term designating those foreign persons who travelled to Pao-an, Yenan, or any areas under Chinese Communist jurisdiction before 1949, in which year Mao's government established the People's Republic of China in Beijing. It is a "circle" rather than an organization, to which any descendant, heir, assign, or biographer, is eligible for the purpose of carrying on this historical line.
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The Yenan Hui was founded on January 3, 1977, by Helen Snow and Margaret Stanley, for the purpose of preserving the unique experiences of pre-1949 visitors to areas controlled by Chinese Communists.
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海伦 斯诺 虽然对共产党并不认同，但是她建立的基金会对于在中国认证斯诺的各种书籍非常热心，虽然这些书籍的版权早就进入公共领域了，呵呵。
家园 以前西西河的读书笔记是全球中文高地 楼主，赫克托尔王子，淮夷，还有好多， 现在只剩下万年看客河友，还常常客串啦啦队。
家园 补一位 @同人于野 的读书笔记，水平也是极高的
家园 人民文学出版社2021 第一版 都尼玛2021年了，党国才开始着手从一个个具体事实的层面，去反击“”内外主流舆论“”经典红太阳具体事实三件套---“”高压洗脑，反智民粹，极权独裁“”，真是充满乐子。
我好惊讶呀，原来红太阳不反智呢。
家园 拉铁摩尔TMD是个坏人啊 60,70年代美帝解密了一批档案，就是抗日战争期间美国延安观察团谢伟思他们的延安调研档案，这批档案显示延安观察团对中共的定性是民族主义的。
不要问我为什么美帝挑在60，70年代才解密这批档案，美帝当时有没有什么考量，或者这批档案存不存在九真一假，或者三真七假什么的。总之美帝是讼棍治国，程序正义依法治国的。制度上，保密时效或者其他技术性理由肯定是不缺的。
等党国真的搞中华民族了，TMD拉铁摩尔什么的这类屌毛又开始普及推广他们的另一个框架，选择性的筛选甚至不排除发明了批档案材料，拼凑了个所谓的“”证据链“”，来搞什么内亚新清史。原来在这等我呢，我屌你妈的，想逼死老子们是吧，还是你美帝套路深，谁给老子说的美帝傻白甜经常被坑来着？真正的美帝掌控者阴得一批好吗。
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他们构建了一个“”角色定位“”的框架包含斯大林赫鲁晓夫，毛泽东邓小平，胡志明黎笋，霍查。然后有意识通过“”多层面的双向离间“”，制造社会主义阵营不信任或者不敢信任。
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纲举目张，美帝控制的主流史观纲领是极力想把红太阳从左右两边“”定位“”成“”霍查，黎笋“”这类费拉不堪之物。
关于“”类比“”，美帝是故意混淆主次矛盾，马前卒“”乌克兰政府发枪是人民战争“”是真的实事求是水平低。（河里没有马前卒的粉丝就这个马JOJO的奇妙类比跟我“”交流“”一番吗？就像马前卒蹭汪晖。马前卒不是向他的粉丝们公开推荐过西西河，虽然我不知道他出于什么理由，他有多了解西西河，或者多了解他的粉丝群体，不过有一说一，西西河敏感字比较少是个优点）。
通宝推：MaverickZ,
家园 There is another human detail There is another human detail that I think is most revealing of Chairman
Mao's mind. Bisson mentioned Mao's effort to persuade Effie Hill,
our Swedish mechanic-driver, to stay in Yenan and take charge of the
maintenance and repair of Yenan's battered fleet of trucks and cars. Now
Effie was a prime example of that picaresque genus, "the parson's profligate
son," of whom there were quite a lot in old China. His parents were
Swedish Lutheran missionaries. He had grown up on a sector of the Inner
Mongolian frontier long ago settled by Chinese colonists where the local
Chinese dialect (which was in fact his native language) was considered
by other Chinese to be especially uncouth and comic. He had a rare gift
of clowning in this language, to attract laughter and sympathy. With an
incomplete education he had drifted about Northwest China for a good
many years, although still a young man. He had driven cars for Chinese
merchants, Chinese warlords, and the Sven Hedin Sino-Swedish Expedition
in Inner Mongolia and Sinkiang. He had an incredible knowledge of
the seamy side of frontier life-brothel slang, drinking slang, folklore,
bandit lore.
At the same time Effie, in spite of his fantastically complete understanding
(in certain ways) of his special Chinese milieu, had also a kind
of racist contempt for it. His attitude was, "this is a world of skulduggery
and crooked dealing. I know the way these Chinese think-but with my
extra margin of being a white man, I can always out-doublecross them."
Socially, I think, he would have to be called a lumpen-bourgeois. He
knew little of politics except on the level of "who gets away with the
boodle," but he had a detestation of communism. He must have had a
deep instinct that it would ruin his raffish way of life.
It is interesting that Chairman Mao, while be was polite, considerate,
and patient with us Americans, really tried as hard as be knew bow to
retain this declasse Swede in Yenan. And why not? American intellectuals
come a dime a dozen. There is a new crop every generation. But a European
motor mechanic, with an earthy command of a genuinely peasant
dialect, able to show what you do with machinery and explain how you
do it-that would be a treasure. I am glad to be able to record also the
opinion of Effie Hill, the gut-reaction anti-Communist. On the way back
from Yenan, I asked him, "Well, now that that's over, what do you think
of Mao Tse-tung?" His answer was, "I've been with all kinds-merchants,
warlords, intellectuals, Kuomintang political big-shots. But this
is the only Chinese I have seen who could unite China."
Bisson has described how Edgar Snow helped us in making contacts
for going to Yenan. It is with both pride and sadness that I date this
from Ed's house in Switzerland.
Eysins, Vaud OWEN LATTIMORE
Switzerland
Aug 1972
通宝推：MaverickZ,一着,家园 此外，还有一个充满人情味的细节 此外，还有一个充满人情味的细节，可以十分透彻地显示出毛泽东机智过人的头脑来。
毕森在书中提到，毛泽东曾竭尽全力，劝说给我们当司机的那个瑞典人机械师艾飞·希尔，请他留在延安，负责修理和保管红军队伍中那批被国民党的炮火打得稀烂的卡车和吉普车。
艾飞·希尔是个基督教牧师的儿子。在旧中国，像他这样的人为数不少。但艾飞却算得上是个传奇色彩浓厚、经历曲折独特的冒险家、流浪汉。
他的父母是瑞典基督教路德派教会的来华传教士。艾飞出生成长于内蒙古河套地区。有很多汉族人在那一带开荒种地。当地百姓所操的方言，在其他中国人听来，是堪称粗鄙可笑的。但那种方言却恰恰是艾飞的乡音。这个年轻人极具天分，善于通过插科打诨的方式，用方言土语与人逗乐，以此博得笑声，赢取好感。
艾飞年纪虽轻，却未曾接受过完整的教育。他在中国西北部地区辗转流浪了很多个年头，曾为内蒙古和新疆一带的中国富商和军阀们驾车，也曾为斯文·赫定（Sven Hedin）的“中国-瑞典探险队”服务过。艾飞对中国边远地区社会底层的阴暗面，可说是了如指掌。无论是娼寮俗语、猜拳行令、民间小调，还是土匪黑话，他都能脱口道来。
虽然从某些方面来看，艾飞对他所身处的特殊的中国环境具有深入透彻的了解，但与此同时，他对这个社会也怀有不屑，涉嫌有点种族主义者的味道。
在表明自己的态度时，他曾这样说过：“这是一个充满欺诈和玩弄不正当手段的世界。我很了解他们中国人的思维方式。但我是个与众不同的白种人，因此总能翻倍地赢过他们。”
从社会视角上来说，我觉得把艾飞称作“游民小资产者”，会比较恰当。他对政治的了解实际上乏善可陈，其知识面充其量仅仅停留在“谁谁谁接受贿赂却逃脱了惩罚”这种水平上。但他却声称，并不喜欢共产主义的理念。他肯定拥有一种根深蒂固的直觉，因此懂得，共产主义理想将会毁掉他那种天马行空、放荡不羁的生活方式。
然而，颇为有趣的是，毛泽东主席对我们这几个美国人彬彬有礼、耐心有加，但与此同时，他却使出了浑身解数，千方百计地试图劝说这个落魄潦倒的瑞典年轻人，请他在延安留下来。
这也可以理解。美国的知识分子并不值钱，一毛钱一堆儿。新苗代代有，且层出不穷。然而，一个欧裔的汽车机械师，操着土里土气却堪称地道的乡下人口音，不但能够把那些繁琐复杂的机器玩弄于股掌之间，还能够教会你怎么对付这些玩意儿，你说他不是个宝贝，还能是什么？
我很高兴也能在这本书中记录下艾飞·希尔这位并不赞同共产主义的人所发出的真知灼见。
当我们离开延安，踏上归程之后，我曾经问他：“现在，一切都已结束了，你觉得毛泽东这个人怎么样呢？”
艾飞·希尔回答说：“我曾经见识过各种各样的人。富商、军阀、知识分子、国民党高官。但毛泽东却是我见过的唯一一个能够统一全中国的人。”
毕森描述了埃德加·斯诺是如何伸出援手，促成了我们前往延安采访的。
此刻，我怀着骄傲与悲伤交织一处的复杂心情，在瑞士的斯诺家中记下了今天这个日子。
欧文·拉铁摩尔
1972年8月于瑞士沃德省艾辛斯市
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1937，延安对话/（美）托马斯·毕森著；李彦译. —北京：人民文学出版社，2021
ISBN 978-7-02-016012-9
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这个中文版中有李彦写的一个后记 "校园里那株美洲蕾"，有很多相关的细节，可供参考。
家园 拉铁摩尔特别注明这段回忆写于1972年8月，斯诺在瑞士的房子 其时为斯诺去世后半年。
斯诺晚年住的地方就在高速路边，经过时会想起来。但是不知道具体是哪座房子，不然可以去看一看。
另外，这段掌故也出现在1990年出版的日本人整理的拉铁摩尔回忆录里，题名为《蒋介石与抗日战争》，很是反讽。大陆出的中译本，[日]磯野富士子整理，吳心伯譯：《蔣介石的美國顧問——歐文·拉鐵摩爾回憶錄》，復旦大學出版社1996年
家园 In the meantime, I found China memoirs, Chiang Kai-shek and the War Against Japan - Owen Lattimore, Compiled by Fujiko Isono - 1990
P56 - p63
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In the meantime, I found a young Swede, Effie Hill. He was the son of missionaries, had never been out of China, and spoke very fluent Chinese. He was also a good motor mechanic. Because of his abilities he had been employed by the Sven Hedin Expeditions through Inner Mongolia to Sinkiang. By this time the Hedin Expeditions had been completed, and he was running a private business in Sian with a car of his own, an American car, for hire, while also making a bit of money repairing cars for Chinese car owners. We hired him with his car to take us to Yenan. Because of all this semicivil war atmosphere, he was not doing much business and jumped at the chance.
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One fine day, we all piled into his car. We did not give up our rooms at the hotel, saying we were just going out to see some tombs. When we got out of the city, we just kept going and reached a border post between the Sian troops and the Red Army. The Swede, being a local man, knew where the warlord troops were fraternizing with the Communists, so we passed through without any trouble. As soon as we reached the Communist side, everything was fine. They were very hospitable, there was no trouble at all, and we got up to Yenan all right.
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...
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There was a rather amusing episode about this journey to Yenan. Mao Tse-tung was very eager to persuade our driver, the Swede, to stay in Yenan. Effie was born and brought up in a district of the Inner Mongolian frontier a bit east of Kueihua. I never visited the place myself, but all along the Chahar, Suiyuan, Ninghsia, and Kansu borders of Inner Mongolia, the number of Chinese dialects is astonishing. They are mutually understandable; but they are very, very different. This is probably related historically to different periods when the Hsiung-nu, and later the Turks, surrendered to the Chinese dynasties and settled there. The way they learned Chinese must have affected the Chinese dialects of the region. Now, the dialect of the place where this young Swede came from was considered by everybody else to be in itself extremely comic, and the moment you heard a man talking in that dialect, everybody would start to laugh. The Swede, while he knew standard Chinese, could speak that dialect perfectly.
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In the evening in Yenan, they had entertainment gatherings. The big men, Mao, Chou, Chu Teh, and other top leaders would all be there, sitting in the audience, without any privileged seats, just mingling with the crowd. This was one of their very important ways of getting the feel of how people thought about things. On these occasions people from different parts of China would get up on the stage and sing folk songs from their regions or tell stories. This young Swede, one evening, pushed his way up and got onto the platform. There he put on a stunt, telling stories in this comic dialect. He could also sing very well. The whole theater was rocking with laughter. Mao was particularly impressed and wanted to meet this young man; and the young Swede was brought to be presented to him. It then turned out that not only had he worked for the Sven Hedin Expeditions, but he had hired out his lorries to different warlords and had had encounters with bandits, and all that kind of thing. In the course of these adventures, he had become a very good motor mechanic.
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In all newly industrialized countries, when new equipment, such as motor cars, is introduced, the critical problem is that it is much easier to learn how to drive a motor vehicle than to keep that vehicle in good condition. Even before he made this sensational appearance on the stage, the young Swede, having nothing to do, went round to see things. The Chinese did not have much motor equipment, but they did have some, and a lot of it was in bad condition. The Swede would say: "Here, let me take a hand. I will show you how to fix this." In this way, he was getting a local reputation as a motor vehicle fixer, and this immediately struck Mao Tse-tung. He must have thought: "Here is a young man, a different type of foreigner, who speaks more than one dialect of the common people and gets on well with ordinary mechanics. He can explain things to a peasant who had never handled machinery and teach him how to become a mechanic. If I can persuade him to stay with us, he will be extremely valuable in a practical way. I don t give a damn about his politics." Mao Tse-tung spent a lot of time trying to persuade Hill to stay with him in Yenan.
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Everybody knows the expression "lumpen proletariat. This man Hill was a "lumpen bourgeois," if there is such a thing. He was a type of missionary son who had reacted against his pious upbringing. He drank, he gambled, and he went to the houses of prostitution, not as a foreigner but along with whatever Chinese he was working with. He took all kinds of jobs and had spent his life knocking around the interior with all kinds of Chinese; but he still retained a sort of white man's contempt for the natives and basically looked down on the Chinese. He was very poorly educated. He had heard little about the Communists and thought that they were a disreputable bunch. There was no danger that he would ever become sympathetic to Marxism. If he thought that the Chinese Communists were nothing but a gang of bandits, he would say: "Well, that's all right. I've dealt with bandits. On a man-to-man basis, I can always get along." Nevertheless, he did not want to stay in Yenan. By this time, he had quite a thriving little business in Sian, and he wanted to get back and go on with it. So he resisted all Mao Tse-tung's blandishments and went back with our party.
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One day on our way back to Sian, while we were waiting for the engine of the car to cool off, I asked Hill: "Effie, you have seen all kinds of Chinese. What do you think of this lot?" As he had been wandering about Yenan, talking to people, I wanted to get his reaction. He said: "I tell you what. I've met a lot of these Kuomintang intellectuals. I have dealt with warlords. There is hardly any kind of Chinese I've not dealt with. But in Yenan, I have seen for the first time a man who could become the new emperor of China." (That was Mao Tse-tung.)
- 待认可未通过。偏要看
家园 毛主席是为了延安留人啊 倒不一定要求对方必须如何。不是谄媚。
匿名 要不让他多带出几个徒弟再走也行啊 技术人员培训也确实是很重要的
家园 欢迎老河友归来 这个瑞典人很有趣，尽管对政治所知甚少，但是能够以中国人的历史观念判断，毛主席是能够统一中国的唯一人。
不可置信。