主题：今天BBC说，印度的饥民超过非洲饥民的总数 -- 晨枫
- 复 这个印度小瞧不得
家园 挑错 想想看，如果只算这八千万人，中国照样是世界第三大经济呀
反对这句话。中国和印度恐怕不同，也许印度的奇迹是由2亿精英创造的，但是中国肯定不是。上亿的在血汗工厂在工地以几百元月薪打工的沉默的多数才是创造中国gdp奇迹的原动力，没有他们，狗p不是。
- 复 挑错
家园 这是一个矛盾体 有些话不能说得那么激进，对中西部富余劳动力来说，去东部富裕地区以几百元月薪打工也是改变命运的一个机会，如果大家和谐，给打工者月薪后面加个零，说不定这些打工者都无法出来。所以，邓公的让一部分人先富起来，摸着石头过河都有深刻的哲理在里面。社会财富积聚后，再通过政策逐步和谐，比一个“和谐”的穷社会要好得多。如果我们的政策得力，这些血汗工厂可能是中国走向现代化过程中不得不接受的一次阵痛。
本帖一共被 1 帖 引用 (帖内工具实现) - 复 挑错
家园 同意，兼回楼下 我在帖子中说了，中国不能这样看，我们中国人自己也不会不管广大贫穷的农村。另一方面，我们观察印度时要注意调整我们自己脑子中固有的大一统和强力中央政府的思路。印度是民主国家，虽然我对民主什么的不感兴趣。而其中央政府是很弱的。这一方面给集中资源发展经济和基础设施带来困难，另一方面也能调和社会矛盾。你想，在东部的加尔各答和班戈尔帮，共产党执政近五十年了。而更东边的阿萨姆邦，就是长得是缅甸人，西藏人那个邦，也是高度自治。楼下说的对，这类地方，如果有人愿意煽风点火，那是不困难的。但现状是没人这么干。印度的混乱都是地方性的。
总之，我的观点是，印度的制造业是不可能超过中国的。而其服务业，基本不可能超过中国。服务业的大头是运输，这一项上他就不行。但金融服务，医疗服务，会计审计外包，确实比中国潜力大，现在看发展的也快。比如我们本地（小地方）的MRI还是CT,确实是发到印度来判读的。大家最常见的Call Center,发展空间不大。简单说，我不认为印度能赶超中国，但是不能同意印度和非洲不相伯仲等等观点。事实上印度比巴西都强。
- 复 这个印度小瞧不得
家园 按照印度自己的调查结果，他们已经超过南非，成为世界第一谋杀大国了 很不和谐
- 复 这个印度小瞧不得
家园 印度当然小瞧不得 但是印度的所谓“稳定”的社会结构正是他进步的阻碍。
- 复 这个印度小瞧不得
家园 印度的小乱放到中国都是大乱 印度那是什么小乱， 他的小乱子放到中国来， 都是大乱。一半的邦里有游击队。这也算是小乱？ 那么多分离主义，中国才两，印度多少。还有两亿穆斯林。你去印度转转，保安不是一般的严。而且印度的贫富差距，不是一般的大。
说个事，这次地震，印度论坛上在那里讨论为什么电视上四川地震灾民看上去营养都很好的样子。有的说土共专门找了人来上电视，有人说其实北京上海的普通人还吃不饱饭之类的。
印度的乱子看上去小，其实很大。主要是没人搞他。反正看吧，今年就看印度能不能挺得住吧。
家园 佩服阿 强，确实今年就挺不住了
家园 好奇 哪个印度论坛这么搞笑? 哪个帖子? 能给个链接么?
- 复 好奇
家园 印度论坛的帖子 Kakkaji Post subject: Posted: 29 May 2008 05:48 pm BRFite
While watching the news clips of the aftermath of the earthquake in China, I have noticed that the people, at least in the cities, appear to be well-fed and well-dressed. None of the stereotypical short, stick-thin Chinese there. In fact quite a few people, while not obese, could be characterized as 'stocky'. Very different from what I was used to seeing in pictures from 20 years ago.
It appears that within the space of a generation, China has conquered malnutrition. I would venture to say that the 'average' young Chinese is taller, healthier, and better-fed than the 'average' young Indian.
ramana Post subject: Posted: 29 May 2008 08:12 pm Forum Moderator
Kakkaji, Amartya Sen (he of the Nobel Prize fame) wrote a recent article published in Deccan Chronicle on how mvoing up the ecnomic sclae increases consumption and hence the food price increase! May be Asian Age might have archieved it.
Kakkaji: ramana:
Yes, but the point I want to convey is that China seems to have been able to move almost all of its urban population up the economic scale from 'semi-starved' to 'well-fed' within a generation.
And they seem to be determined and well-positioned (witness their contract farming in Cambodia, Laos etc) to keep their population well-fed, despite the rise in prices. It is the poor countries that missed the bus when China was surging ahead, whose population will face starvation due to rising food prices.
derkonig: All CCP propaganda.
Kakkaji: Boss,
I understand that the Chinese Govt. manipulates information. But propaganda cannot hide all the facts. For example, it is amply clear to me, despite all the CCP propaganda, that a number of school buildings collapsed in the quake because their construction was shoddy, which could not have happened without the collaboration of corrupt officials.
All I am saying is that the people appear "well-fed". which means the Govt. of China seems to have done a good job of taking care of hunger and malnutrition, even though they may have failed on human rights, corruption, environment, and other fronts.
shyam: Actually, one of my friends who visited Shanghai and Beijing recently told me otherwise that average chinese is not well fed. Their physique can't be compared to that of typical Punjabis. In fact, my friend lost 10lb in three weeks of visit there, though he resorted to vegitarian food there. He said, even the amount of meat present in regular food is very little.
What he observed is that average chinese is well clothed. The material may be cheap, but the design will be stylish. Because of cold weather they wear slightly thick dress and may look bit fat.
derkonig : What I am suggesting is that all those ppl in those vidoes can also playing their parts, all of this being orchestrated by the CCP. Its a bit strange that all these 'victims' are so well dressed, few look injured.
IMHO its all stage managed.
amit: Kakkaji,
I entirely agree with your point about the urban Chinese being relatively "well-fed" - certainly more so than their parents.
However, one small point - more an elaboration - China is desperate on contract farming due to the fact that it has very little arable land fit for farming. Despite having a land area which is almost twice that of India, its arable land area is far lower - off hand I forget the figure but its on the Net - than what we have in India.
And thanks to desertification in Northern China and pollution sinking into the groundwater and in the soil due to indiscriminate growth this arable area is shrinking even faster.
Another point: As people move up the economic ladder the quality of food intake changes. At the bottom is coarse grains, then comes rice, wheat etc and finally at the top, the amount of cereals and vegetables decreases and the proportion of meat in food intake increases.
Since historically Chinese have been under fed for countless generations - the poor country has witnessed more famines than any other in the world - as the prosperity increases all types of consumption is going up. Remember, the past 40 years or so has been, by Chinese standards an unusally long period of stabilty with steady economic progress. It's hard to find a similar period in Chinese history - one would have to go a long, long way back.
- 复 印度论坛的帖子
家园 呵呵，从英语用词和语气上能看出来，这些人应该是印度受过良好教育的 但他们的精英阶层对中国的看法都如此愚蠢，还在讨论中国人是不是闹饥荒营养不良，我看了之后到是大为宽慰，如此自大和无知的精英阶层，那这个国家能有什么出息呢？
不过也可能是那种“既生瑜，何生亮？”的情结蒙蔽了他们的双眼吧。
- 复 印度论坛的帖子
家园 里面认为地震报道是propaganda是排演的唯一依据 可以看出里面认为地震报道是propaganda是排演的唯一依据就是“ Its a bit strange that all these 'victims' are so well dressed, few look injured. ”
当然四川人也是比较爱吃的 ：）
家园 这样说就不好了，地震中可以看见四川偏远地区也比想象的好。